Outwitters 1.6.1 Update and Bramble

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Outwitters 1.6.1 is out! Players are loving the new maps with the release of the 2nd gen maps in our previous update. Then they realized the new maps weren’t coming up in league play. Oops! This update fixes that. The new map pack should now start appearing in league matches.

On the topic of the recent Bramble buff, we’ve been listening to feedback and watching match outcomes in aggregate. With most drastic changes to unit abilities or gameplay rules,  we see a slight upswing in favor of the new ability as players are typically faster at learning how to use the ability offensively than they are at defending against it. Defensive strategies tend to lag behind any metagame changes as players slowly adapt new tactics and let go of old ones that no longer work. While we do think the new Bramble is strong, we aren’t 100% sure if it is broken or a matter of the metagame lagging behind. We would like for the Bramble change to run it’s course through this weekend, and come next week we’ll look at the data and feedback and adjust from there. We do appreciate our player’s patience and support as we work towards a more balanced game!

Categories: News, Outwitters

94 Responses to “Outwitters 1.6.1 Update and Bramble”

  1. Porceveer says:

    Has the bramble replay bug been fixes as well?

    And thanks for your work guys, it’s amazing what effort you put in! I also agree with the decision to give bramble a little more time.

  2. ~Shane.c says:

    I think the bramble vines should only have 2 health, I like the attacking ability but just the fact that you need a sniper or heavy to clear them with one move when they have te ability to move quickly and effectively all over the battlefield doesn’t make sense

  3. Riptor says:

    Just a question, i’ve bought the 2nd map pack, if i started a league match on a new map, i’ve to wait a player who have bought this map pack too ?

  4. Nick says:

    Riptor
    You don’t need to buy the maps to play in league

  5. Oreste says:

    I honestly would much rather the bramble lost the attacking ability rather than being brought back to the original 2 hp. I’ve been using it since the beginning and when it had only 2 hp in some occasions it would become pointless to spawn them if soldiers could 1 hit them. Please don’t bring them back to 2 hp!!!!

  6. TimothyPeters says:

    The bramble seems invincible if not caught early on. Honesty I think it’s a big advantage and I sadly will have to switch to bramble now in order to just compete

  7. Dominic says:

    Would agree that bramble seems to strong. Either revert back to 3 defense and no attack, or adjust HP to 2.

  8. Vanessa says:

    I’ve never been a fan of the bramble just because its so annoying, even with the update and its seeming invincibility I still don’t care for it, even though I always win when using it. I feel as though it is a bit too strong now and I personnally will not play against anyone using them, even if it counts as a lost for me and I lose ranking points.

  9. Bamamike says:

    Agreed on the bramble being way too strong. Either knock the vines to 2 hp or lose the attack ability

  10. Zken1990 says:

    Bramble is way too strong now please fix it as other players have said I have had to switch to veggienauts just to compete

  11. norahsul says:

    Still love what you do! <3 <3 <3

  12. Alan Klaus says:

    I think the problem is that the bramble has too many features that don’t apply consistently to other units. For example:
    – bramble or even a thorn can spawn a thorn which can spawn another thorn, etc. It’d be more consistent if new thorns could only attack on the first turn of their life.
    – bramble being able to uproot for no wits AND move 4 spaces AND have up to three health. It’s just so easy to run away from an attack… if the opponent can even get close enough to begin with.
    – bramble being able to move, root, AND spawn thorns all in the same turn. It’d be more consistent if it was limited to one action in addition to the move. That means no thorns on the turn it roots… just like the canon can’t shoot after shelling. It’s too powerful to be able to move 4 spaces, root (for FREE) and still have tons of wits to produce 5+ thorns all in one turn.

  13. Alan Klaus says:

    Clarification: “only attack on the first turn” means can attack but not spawn. I don’t mean that they should lose attacking ability after the first turn.

  14. VhalisMB says:

    Ive been playing brambles almost exclusively since the beginning, I’m still only on Gifted league with about 100 wins or so. The new changes did help a lot, especially against robots. But I almost feel like anyone playing fishes or cup cakes have no chance once I get brambles out on the field. Going against another veggie, the game comes out usually to who can get brambles sooner.

    I think that there is another possibility instead of removing atk or lowering the health. How about this:
    1. Have each child spawn with one health less than its parent, with minimum of one hp.
    2. Children with one hp cannot spawn more brambles unless buffed to full hp with the mushroom.
    3. Brambles with one hp can still attack.

  15. Anonymous says:

    What if the entire bramble patch could only attack once for 1hp. That would mean healing a sniper would protect it from the quick bramble strike. Snipers are effective against trimming back the bramble, but with the new rules they die wayy to quickly before they can make a difference.

  16. stephen says:

    I find defending against it on the smaller maps is manageable when I dig in at spawn points. On the larger maps trying to defend multiple spawn and bonus spaces over wide areas is just too hard.

  17. Chad says:

    Love the new Bramble…slightly over powered though. Adjusting hp back down to 2 with no wit reward for kill would rebalance everything. Further discussion in detail on this initial thread:
    http://www.onemanleft.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1690&pid=33356#pid33356

    Thanks gang! Great game.

  18. Crash says:

    I agree with those saying it makes absolutely no sense a bramble can root and spawn on the same turn. IMO fixing that is a change that MUST be made. On the other options I agree with letting the meta-game play out a while longer.

  19. MrYarix says:

    I’m in the “let’s see what happens” camp. I’m used to playing the cuties (Titan 17th) and although it’s hard for them (and the androids get *slammed*,but I don’t get them anyway), I feel the pirates have the upper hand against the veggies. It will make for some interesting pairings…

  20. Adam says:

    IMO the major thing that separates the new bramble from other units and makes It overpowering is its ability to have unlimited spawning. Other units are limited to spawning only on unit per spawn point per turn. The new bramble is only limited by the amount if wits a player has on any given turn. It’s almost impossible to compete against when your opponent can spawn 8-10 more units than you can per turn. I say leave the 3hp and attacking ability alone and limit the amount of spawning it can do in one turn and then it will be right in line with other units.

  21. ElPared says:

    Instead of knocking thorn HP down or limiting spawns, you could make the thorns lose 1 HP when they spawn a new thorn, and gain it back (to 3 HP max) when its child is retracted. Then, if limiting spawns is a big deal which IMO it isn’t, the you could make it so either 1 HP thorns can’t spawn new ones, or spawning a new thorn for a 1 HP thorn kills it.

    The only problem I see there is it screws Feedback, as a scrambled thorn would be worthless unpess you got a parent. You could solve this by allowing a 1 HP thorn to spawn new ones anyways, since at 1 HP a runner could kill an entire chain of thorns.

  22. Nicolas says:

    Too strong. Should down hp, or put a limit to the amount of spawns…

  23. Kewidi says:

    Bramble is too strong. It makes the game boring when all you are doing is fighting against Bramble. I agree though, after loosing many games against bramble and going down in my ranking, I have learned how to combat it. Doesn’t always work though. It should be made weaker somehow. Love the game though.

  24. MrYarix says:

    One little thing I noticed: a shell doesn’t get wits for an indirect kill on a thorn. If that were to happen I think pirates will kill for sure. Problem for the brambles is that, although they are nimble, it is very hard to get to a decisive kill. He still needs to get a runner/… to the base and you can defend against that.

  25. Mark H says:

    The new Bramble change has ruined the game and I can’t seem to get an opponent who is not using them. I love this game and the new change is ridiculous. I am not starting any new games until I see a change has been made.

  26. Sal702 says:

    NOTE TO DEVELOPERS: We the gamers don’t mind when you make changes to the characters powers and attributes! Make as many changes as you like. I think it makes the game a little more interesting since you get to try out something new.

    The Bramble is too strong it is almost impossible to do anything against it once it gets close enought to kill your defenses. It makes the game not even fun anymore . A sniper is useless against it since the vines can easily return to kill it off. A heavy is also useless when spawned since it can only attack the nearest branch. Either limit the amount of vines that may be spawned per turn, or have each sprout with one less HP.

  27. Red_orca says:

    Have only played against bramble. They are a little strong. I’ve beaten a few in 2v2 games.

    Only 2 health on brambles would be better and also seeing their build order would be good too

  28. Oz16 says:

    I’m not at all a fan of the bramble, especially given the new powers. I seem to encounter it a LOT more since the new changes took place because I think people know they have a far greater chance if using it offensively. I don’t use it offensively. Call me old fashioned, I want to win by strategy, not via an unbalanced advantage.
    I vote to keep bramble but downgrade its strength.
    Oz16

  29. Dai says:

    I agree with sal702. I have switched to playing Vegs and having heaps more fun. Yes in the early release it, other players had difficultly defending but now players are wise to the bramble and games are lasting longer and are more challenging. Keep the changes coming to keep the game interesting !

  30. Carldec says:

    Brambles are broken. I won’t be playing any more til they are fixed.

  31. Zatara says:

    Adding my two cents…

    I understand the desire to try and wait for strategies against bramble to catch up, however, I hope it’s clear that SOME change is needed. Personally I’d be more in favor of making the vines give damage to attackers when they are hit (at least with melee) but any changes can’t come soon enough. It is so maddening to play against veggies that I just take the loss now and move on. I love the game but if bramble stays the same then I’m willing to look for another strategy game fix.

  32. Oz16 says:

    I gotta say, I just played my few games going. Brambles all over the place….it’s so frustrating and unfair that I think if it keeps going to wont play any more and give it a 2 rating at best. It may be challenging and cool to the more experienced players but to those still learning it’s become so one sided that I can’t even keep learning new strategies. I just keep getting drowned in brambles. I really think you are going to drive away potential new players by making brambles stronger. They will get slaughtered several times in a row by the bramble gamers and bail out to spend their time and money elsewhere.

  33. Turbo Shred says:

    IF YOU MAKE THE NEW VINES COST 2 WITS INSTEAD OF ONE THIS WILL BALANCE THINGS IMHO

  34. Turbo Shred says:

    Please consider my suggestion. Love the game.

  35. Player says:

    I gotta say, I just played my few games going. Brambles all over the place….it’s so frustrating and unfair that I think if it keeps going to wont play any more and give it a 2 rating at best. It may be challenging and cool to the more experienced players but to those still learning it’s become so one sided that I can’t even keep learning new strategies. I just keep getting drowned in brambles. I really think you are going to drive away potential new players by making brambles stronger. They will get slaughtered several times in a row by the bramble gamers and bail out to spend their time and money elsewhere.

  36. Little bull says:

    I absolutely agree with player. The game has become VERY frustrating if you are not veggies. I have suspended all my games where I am against a bramble. I will wait to play them until just before I hit the time limit just to prolong the time before I have to play in the hopes of getting an update icing the broken veggies. I will not be playing any new games either. If it is not changed, I will be done with outwitters. A broken game is no fun.

  37. A person will supports Outwitters says:

    Drop vines hp 2 and 1 wit per root/uproot via bramble please.

  38. Jamaral says:

    Bramble has been tuned up to overpowered level. It’s actually ok but now it just has to be correctly balanced.
    The best would be to make bramble similar to bombshell where it cost wits to root/uproot, and you can’t spawn in the same turn as you do it.
    Otherwise all the other specials have to be balanced up.
    I will wait until the specials are rebalanced to go back to league play. At the moment there is a slight unbalance that caused a veggie invasion (it is really hard to kill one wit thorn without spending at least 3.

  39. Michael says:

    Sorry, but Bombshell from Scallywags is the ultimate bramble killer. I’ve also gone against a brilliant Adorables Mobi player who picked apart my Bramble by watching the spawn pattern and using hit and run tactics. I think it’s just a matter of new tactics… No need to Nerf the Bramble.

  40. Mobi says:

    And that’s just the problem, Michael….you have to be a brilliant player to pick apart the brambles. Unfortunately I’m not so brilliant…Lol…i suspect im not alone. I hope to improve, was improving, but the average and beginner players will find such an imbalance too much. Who wants to stick around getting prickled to death game after game? They’ll move on elsewhere…

  41. Calchas says:

    Was veggies underpowered before the buff? It didn’t seem like it to me. Was this done for balance or was it done just for a cool new thing? I’d like to know the thinking behind this change. Changing this mid match was pretty bad as well.

  42. Turbo Shred says:

    You guys are crybabies. Bombshell is just as much a pain to kill as Bramble. I like the new Bramble but it needs a little tweaking.

  43. JonB says:

    An alternative to bramble attack …. If you attack a thorn, you take 1 damage! If you are right next to it. That seems more in line with idea of thorns.

  44. Turbo Shred says:

    Ugh. What I meant to say was bombshell is just as much a pain in the butt.

  45. Uncle Leo says:

    Brambles in 1v1 are much tougher than in 2v2. In 1v1 you basically have to play the entire game against the bramble and there’s no fun in that. I’ve never used the veggies but from what I can tell they’re allowed to take root for no wits? And spawn thorns on first turn? They should at the very least follow the BS method. A point to put it down and can’t do anything until next turn. At the very least that should be implemented.

  46. Uncle Leo says:

    Although I do like how more people are using veggienauts, but when half my games are against them it should tell you something. I never used to see them and now they’re in half of my 1v1 games and pretty much 90% one team is a veggie in 2v2 and I’d rarely see them there. It’s good that they’re being used but tone it down. Only allow them to spawn thorns twice per turn or take away attacking ability or increase cost. During each turn, 1st thorn is one wit, 2nd thorn is two wits, third thorn is 3. Their range and wits needed to cut them down is just too much.

  47. MarkedCards says:

    I have to agree with the spawn rate being the major issue of Bramble when their health is at three points and can attack. I like the fact that they have an attack now as before I wouldn’t play them. I am thinking how ever that one of three possibilities should be done.

    Limit the spawn to once for the vine. Or

    Bring the health down to two points. Or

    Thorns should cost 2 wits. I like this option best.

    Just my two cents which isn’t worth much these days.

  48. David says:

    Please fix the bramble it is op and almost impossible to defend very hard on small maps get over run and now it seams people are playing the vegs alot more 7 out of ten matches are vegs now please fix

  49. Cathy says:

    I’m not playing against brambles anymore. No balance, doesn’t make sense considering the other league’s top abilities.

  50. Ziphion says:

    Another possible solution worth testing:
    Thorns spawned directly from bramble cost 1 wit.
    Thorns spawned from existing thorns cost 2 wits.
    This would maintain the bramble’s defensive abilities, while diminishing its ability to completely strangle the whole map.

  51. The Cozyhut says:

    You put down the bramble conspiracy from the forums quite nicely just then. What I really want to know though is this: Have the ads been bringing in a decent amount of dough?

  52. Calchas says:

    Another option to balance the bramble would be to give the opponent one action point for each bramble they kill as a result of killing its parent

  53. Renz says:

    The only problem I’m having now with bramble is the replays. :s Other than that, I’m really starting to think the new bramble is fine. Once I suspect a veggie player has produced bramble, I’ve seen one stategy that’s worked for me (and allowed me to overcome my opponent): use a combination of heavies and snipers, and perhaps one or two medics. :)

    Just remember that using bramble can cost a lot of wits too, wits that could have been used to produce units instead of thorn patches. Take advantage of this + stack up on heavies and snipers, and you should be fine against the new bramble :)

    And come to think of it… The other special units like bombshell and scrambler can be equally annoying. Just my opinion :)

  54. Noukkie says:

    Ballance suggestion:
    Create an animation for the vine that is creating a new vine. This will make the bramble more easy to take apart, IF you have good scouting.

    Other attributes can stay the same…

  55. Icyjoe says:

    . Any match where the new bramble takes the field is incredibly boring and tedious. I will usually forfeit matches simply because I don’t feel like taking 50 turns to finish the game.

  56. pops.99 says:

    Heard this idea: buff Scrambler so when they scramble a unit, the HP goes max to 3, but cannot be healed.

    As for strategy against the bramble, I agree on heavies and snipers.

  57. Chad says:

    Bramble looses again what? Could it be?

    outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yg5qHAww

  58. Whippy says:

    What’s wrong with simply making bramble vines cost 2 wits?

    I see that as the simplest solution.

  59. Esteban says:

    Even if the Bramble overpowered, and I still think they are, games against (or with) the Bramble are not fun. It’s a different game. I miss pre Bramble outwitters.

  60. Jason says:

    I’m not a fan of the Bramble. It limits the direction the game is going to go, so it limits the fun. Even if you considered it balanced (which I do not), it’s really annoying. I would strongly prefer to see it changed drastically or replaced altogether.

  61. Renz says:

    outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y2e2JAww

    Just one of the few reasons why I think bramble’s just fine. I stuck with heavies and a few snipers and I won against bramble.

    I hope people give the new bramble a chance. They’re actually fun to use AND fight against! :D

    P.S. Of course the same strategy I’ve mentioned isn’t a 100% counter against bramble… but there isn’t supposed to be such a thing as a perfect counter…otherwise the game wouldn’t be fun altogether.

  62. Johehan says:

    I actually dislike bombshell more than the new Bramble. A couple of bombshells protected with soldiers also force a very limited defensive dragged out game that is even more boring than fighting off thorns (which is starting to be more and more fun when learning new strategies). The biggest reason bombshells don’t ruin the game for me is that masters and titans don’t seem to use them much so I rarely have to endure such games anymore.

  63. Johehan says:

    Also the feedbacks should get a little buff in my opinion, I always have a hard time when trying to use them and have pretty much given up on them. Maybe an extra hp for the scrambler would do it?

  64. TM says:

    The new bramble is completely out of hand.

  65. Chad says:

    Yes perhaps the solution to squash the complaints is to now buff another team like scrambler/feed backs brain dude. I never play them (which is why I don’t know name) because the special is too weak.

    I agree on bombshell. I’ve found myself risking all to kill one ASAP or face a out of hand game.

    Bramble needs another week of testing IMHO. People are now learning how to fight him and perhaps it is finally balanced after all. There are always annoying ways to use a special and that gets filtered out as you rank. It is frustrating playing a game you know you have the upper hand on but just have to hack through plants to win. But this is a different issue … long live the plants!

  66. Supa says:

    The problem with bramble is he can move the distance of field in no time. Limit his movement to just two spaces at a time. That is he can plant one vine 2 spaces away and no more vines after that one outside of two spaces. Also let scouts see past them !

  67. $mittyDawg says:

    The new bramble is fine. It’s the bombshell that ruins the games!

  68. Lamolly says:

    I’m a veggienaut buff. The bramble has finally achieved equilibrium with the other specials. So I get how that challenge will irk other players who can’t adapt. It’s new hit points mean it can actually be defensive. And the pricking ability mean it isn’t inert. Big cheers.

  69. Bahnhof says:

    Evolve or die. The new Bramble is fine.

  70. Bahnhof says:

    Every special has a very accessible weakness. Sometimes this depends on which race you’re using. Sometimes it’s just paper rock scissors and you have to play the game you’re dealt.

  71. Lorenzo says:

    Bramble can move quickly across the map. Agreed. BUT you have to remember, the trade off for that is that it woul cost a lot of wits that could have gone to producing units instead.

    And it’s completely pointless to allow scouts to see past thorn patches because that would defeat the purpose of their being for defence…

    Take some time to think about the new bramble, and please just leave it alone. It’s fine.

  72. Panga Panga says:

    Vines are painful because they make a game last forever. They aren’t insurmountable, they’re just boring, and unfortunately you put that boring into a game.

  73. JoYoHo says:

    I really enjoy the new powers that has been added to the bramble. People are complaining way much. Yes. We all know the bramble can get quite annoying but if I can defeat one myself, I am pretty sure anyone could because I am positive I have way more losses then wins. Suck it up and enjoy it.

  74. joasae says:

    I’m surprised that Bramble can build root systems over holes in the ground. That is too big an advantage (and strange) according to me.

  75. Lorenzo says:

    Boring is when a pumped up bombshell forces a standstill.

    But ultimately, boring is when a player is unable to adapt new strategies, loses to updates such as the new bramble, and baby-whines about it.

  76. Johehan says:

    Yes, bramble disregarding holes feels more like a bug to me and makes it needlessly hard to cut them off on some maps. Should definitely be fixed.

  77. zyberius says:

    Rather than brambles being “parent / child”, how about making them contiguous? Also, I don’t think that having a bramble in front of you should fog your view. Units should be able to see over the bramble.

  78. Put down says:

    And, rather than maturely debate a situation, arrogant people tend to use terms like ‘baby-whine’ to put down people who don’t agree with them.

  79. Anonymous says:

    One attack per round via a bramble is a good idea

  80. Nicolas says:

    What? Bramble vines costs just 1 wit? Really??? Are u kiding me???

  81. OneSLice says:

    Bramble is fine, it’s finally able to hold its own and actually be worth somthing, unlike bombshell, which has been OP since day one bc it’s too difficult to break the defenses AND kill the bombshell, but I digress, I like the new bramble, both playing as, and playing against, people just need to learn how to defend it, it’s not OP just new!

  82. Elmouchas says:

    Just to point out a small issue I encountered many times :

    Chat not sending messages all the time
    I notice that sometime my chat messages aren’t sent
    when I check the game after sending one, there’s no message.

    I notice it’s happens more often when I write a message after I send my turn.
    But in both situation, some messages doesn’t reach their purpose

    Thanks
    Ps; sorry for my poor English, it’s not my first language.

  83. Anonymous says:

    Did those people fighting brambles happen to be facing two? It’s so cheap to build vies. It’s like allowing u to build 4 seahorse a while still being able to build a soldier…seriously?!

  84. Anonymous says:

    3hp for each vine!?!?!???? You sniper or heavy is dead after killing just one!

  85. Anonymous says:

    For those complaint against bombshell maybe allow it to shoot every other round?

  86. Supa says:

    Bramble in the hands of a skilled player can be at your base and cover your spawn points in one round on small maps. That makes other players play defence straight up which will put off many new players ! Don’t allow bramble to cover important spots or unmovable spots plus have less hit points as well.

  87. Anonymous says:

    New bramble has taken some fun out of the game…js

  88. Swan says:

    Outwitters rules! I love the game

  89. Ratro says:

    CHANGE THE APP LOGO DESIGN!! Thank you :)

  90. Gametimebrizzle says:

    New Bramble is gettin REALLY OLD!

  91. kRaZyXmAn says:

    Could you change the 4-5 day turn limit to like 3 days instead? 4-5 days is pretty long to be afk.

  92. Suspended says:

    I’m suspending all bramble opponent games until the bramble issue is fixed. It is getting SUPER old!

  93. Mark says:

    Bramble games are very tedious. It wouldn’t be that big of an issue but it seems every opponent is using them. The game is not as fun.

  94. Kevinement says:

    I started playing after bramble was changed. He doesn’t seem to be OP. Bramble games usually take longer and can be kinda tedious but my strategy which is to make lots of soldiers and a couple of snipers seems to work quite well. I think bramble is fine as he is even if he can be really annoying sometimes.

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