Scrambling to the Top

GreatGonzales · 05-22-2013, 01:00 AM

Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone agrees to start playing feedback in league. Just for shiggles.

the duck · 05-22-2013, 03:50 AM

(05-22-2013 01:00 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone agrees to start playing feedback in league. Just for shiggles.

That will be very cool.

I think this thread became the unofficial Feedback lover club (credit to Alvendor).

ElPared · 05-22-2013, 05:27 AM

(05-22-2013 01:00 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone agrees to start playing feedback in league. Just for shiggles.

I'd do it. Playing Feedback only was how I clawed my way up from Fluffy to Gifted, maybe if I do it again I'll jump from Gifted to ST lol xD

{~BiA85~} · 05-22-2013, 06:07 AM

a few months ago I switched to purely feedback after having to play as them in the outwitters challenge league tourney. And since then I've climbed into the top 200 (due in large part to inactivity of older top 200 I believe.) and absolutely love them. On a side note this thread inspired me to do it with veggies. I'm pretty sure I'll top out in gifted though.

Szei · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 06:36 AM by Szei.)

Thank you so much for this project. I felt the game was getting very stale at the ST level with so many Adorables. The other teams may have potential, but we would never know if everyone just kept assuming Adorables were the best instead of trying to make other teams work (though let's not jump the gun as you haven't gotten to the top yet).

(05-20-2013 05:47 AM)Alvendor Wrote: So this costs us 16 wits but we gain a 1 hp soldier worth 2 wits so total cost 14.

Opponent loose: 4hp soldier and boosted bombshell - 15
It also costs opponent one wit to kill our 4 hp soldier so a total of 16 wits.

So in a perfect exchange we can gain 2 wits by trading a scrambler for a bombshell.

I agree with your general premise that Feedback vs Scallywags revolves around gambling and is something that I dislike about the matchup. However, I would like to point out that you do gain a little more than 2 wits as the cost of moving a soldier up to the position of the scrambled soldier likely makes the scrambled soldier worth more on the order of 4 or 5 wits while the lost scrambled soldier probably cost your opponent 4 or 5 wits. If you factor in movement costs it's actually usually quite a good exchange for the Feedback player on a successful scramble, BUT in order to get your scrambler in position to pull this off, you usually have to put your scrambler in a place where the Scallywag player could kill it on the turn prior to your attack.

So as you said, SvF is all about high stakes gambling. If the Scallywag player suspects you have a scrambler in range to attack them next turn and chooses to attack first, they can kill the scrambler if they are correct. This is a huge payout for them. However, if you are bluffing or they simply misread you and you actually have your scrambler slightly out of range as a trap, then when the scallywag player attacks and barely can't reach your scrambler, you get the huge payout instead (a relatively safe scramble and the subsequent momentum).

(05-22-2013 01:00 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone agrees to start playing feedback in league. Just for shiggles.

That would defeat the purpose though =P We do need some top Adorable players. I would like to see some high level players attempting this climb with Veggienauts though.

GreatGonzales · 05-22-2013, 06:39 AM

(05-22-2013 06:33 AM)Szei Wrote: I would like to see some high level players attempting this climb with Veggienauts though.

Boo Veggies. They are so borrrring. Try playing 2v2 against a veggie/veggie on acrospire. Ugh.

Mag!cGuy · 05-22-2013, 06:50 AM

This is exactly what I want to do szei, a veggie climb, but I'll do that after I get to top 3 Tongue

(Rone) · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 12:52 PM by (Rone).)

(05-22-2013 05:27 AM)ElPared Wrote: I'd do it. Playing Feedback only was how I clawed my way up from Fluffy to Gifted, maybe if I do it again I'll jump from Gifted to ST lol xD

This is funny to me because I used Scallywag's to claw my way up from Clever to Gifted.

Was afraid to admit I play Scallywag's.

(05-22-2013 06:07 AM){~BiA85~} Wrote: a few months ago I switched to purely feedback after having to play as them in the outwitters challenge league tourney. And since then I've climbed into the top 200 (due in large part to inactivity of older top 200 I believe.) and absolutely love them. On a side note this thread inspired me to do it with veggies. I'm pretty sure I'll top out in gifted though.

I'm sure you can win against some master's and get into master's league... problem is some of those games may get boring using too many thorns and the game gets very long before an ending becomes close.

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 08:57 PM by Alvendor.)

(05-22-2013 01:00 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Here's a crazy idea. What if everyone agrees to start playing feedback in league. Just for shiggles.

Month of the scrambler or something!

(05-22-2013 06:33 AM)Szei Wrote:
(05-20-2013 05:47 AM)Alvendor Wrote: So this costs us 16 wits but we gain a 1 hp soldier worth 2 wits so total cost 14.
Opponent loose: 4hp soldier and boosted bombshell - 15
It also costs opponent one wit to kill our 4 hp soldier so a total of 16 wits.
So in a perfect exchange we can gain 2 wits by trading a scrambler for a bombshell.

I agree with your general premise that Feedback vs Scallywags revolves around gambling and is something that I dislike about the matchup. However, I would like to point out that you do gain a little more than 2 wits as the cost of moving a soldier up to the position of the scrambled soldier likely makes the scrambled soldier worth more on the order of 4 or 5 wits while the lost scrambled soldier probably cost your opponent 4 or 5 wits. If you factor in movement costs it's actually usually quite a good exchange for the Feedback player on a successful scramble, BUT in order to get your scrambler in position to pull this off, you usually have to put your scrambler in a place where the Scallywag player could kill it on the turn prior to your attack.

Yeah the opponent's lost soldier I assume worth 5 wits and the bombshell 10 wits. Usually you move the scrambled soldier backwards as otherwise opponent kills it it using 0-2wits (potentially with a newly created runner). If you assume this exchange takes place further from your spawn you also need to spend an extra wit on your scrambler and your 4hp soldier so it kind of balances out.

(05-22-2013 06:33 AM)Szei Wrote: So as you said, SvF is all about high stakes gambling. If the Scallywag player suspects you have a scrambler in range to attack them next turn and chooses to attack first, they can kill the scrambler if they are correct. This is a huge payout for them. However, if you are bluffing or they simply misread you and you actually have your scrambler slightly out of range as a trap, then when the scallywag player attacks and barely can't reach your scrambler, you get the huge payout instead (a relatively safe scramble and the subsequent momentum).

This is a really good point. For Feedback this bluffing and guessing game occurs much more than for other races. The scrambler vs bombshell is kind of a special situation as it happens so often. There are other situations that only applies to high level games. Sometimes you can put your scrambler in a really vulnerable spot if the opponent knew it was there. The only thing you rely on is that the opponent can't make a good move that at the same time provides that vision. It can be really strong against good opponents but suicide in lower level games!

awpertunity · 05-23-2013, 09:25 AM

Well I might as well come out of the non-gay closet now and admit that my alternate account is "Veggienauts" in which I've played only as Veggies to see how high I can get.

I reached ST pretty quickly but I think I've plateaued now around rank 40-60. Hate to say it but they definitely are a weak race and I don't think I can credit a single win to the fact that I had a bramble.
The problem with bramble is that it is not a tide turner at all. If I am even slightly behind and try to spawn a bramble I've almost surely secured my own loss. On some large maps it can be a bit helpful but again, only when I already have an advantage and can use the bramble to further the advantage.

I've reached a point where I am definitely losing games where I know I could have won had I been a different race and most my games now I don't even spawn a bramble. I would be better off using Feedback and not spawning any specials, just for the fear it would instill in my opponent about a possible scrambler (as long as they don't know I'm not going to spawn one).