Adorables going first on reaper.

[The RawkHawk]

I second that notion

[GreatGonzales]

bump.

[harvarnold]

This is an interesting game where I easily stop the rush and was in a dominant position. The. I make an indescribable number of horrible mistakes and lose, but it still shows that the rush is beatable.
Reaper A vs. F

[Koryphaia]

Forgive me as I don't have any replays saved, but I've played a number of games against the mobi rush on this board and I find it rather easy to stop. I've played as Scallywags, but you don't even need a special to stop the mobi rush. I do not think this board is imbalanced. Particularly because the mobi rush leaves the adorables so undefended that its an easy win once you deal with the mobi and snipers.

[Emuchu]

(12-22-2012 03:57 AM)Koryphaia Wrote:  Forgive me as I don't have any replays saved, but I've played a number of games against the mobi rush on this board and I find it rather easy to stop. I've played as Scallywags, but you don't even need a special to stop the mobi rush. I do not think this board is imbalanced. Particularly because the mobi rush leaves the adorables so undefended that its an easy win once you deal with the mobi and snipers.

I'm testing a variant of the Mobi Rush I learned from fellow Titan Exzachtlee. The way it's performed, even Terenceshiu2005 fails to stop the rush in a favorable position (he destroyed the Mobi, but I was left with both Snipers, a Runner, and a Heavy, and he had only a Medic, Runner, and Soldier). I feel like this map is strongly imbalanced in favor of the Adorables, which sucks because Reaper is my favorite map and I luuurv my Mobi, but it's meaningless to win here if the Rush has no hard counters.

Anyone who thinks they have a foolproof, preferably non-Special Mobi Reaper Rush defense... I implore you to take on this rush and prove me wrong.

... and it doesn't count if you win because I royally screwed up (it happens, sometimes), I mean surviving consistently against a well-executed rush, because I've lost at every attempt I've made at stopping Exzachtlee.

PM me. I'll send you a game. I really want someone to tell me I just suck and trample all over my whale.

[Necrocat219]

I've currently drawn out the map and I have made my own counters for wits and paper units. I'm trying my best to find a solid counter but no luck so far. I'll challenge you after.

I think a major problem, even if there is an easy counter to the rush, is that counter will require definite steps to make which may leave P2 at a disadvantage. For example of P2's second turn they must either gain vision of the mobi's potential position or prepare for it otherwise, leading to 2 definite openings for P2 that have to be played. Not sure that would be healthy.

[Emuchu]

(12-22-2012 06:50 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote:  I've currently drawn out the map and I have made my own counters for wits and paper units. I'm trying my best to find a solid counter but no luck so far. I'll challenge you after.

I think a major problem, even if there is an easy counter to the rush, is that counter will require definite steps to make which may leave P2 at a disadvantage. For example of P2's second turn they must either gain vision of the mobi's potential position or prepare for it otherwise, leading to 2 definite openings for P2 that have to be played. Not sure that would be healthy.

It's not. Let me tell you how my games with Terence usually play out:

Standard Mobi Rush opening to Turn 5, Mobi drops Sniper on the border. Terence builds a wall of 2 boosted Soldiers, 1 boosted Runner, and the Heavy. Sniper steps forward once in case I move through the center.

Dogfighting ensues. Terence loses Heavy and Runner, and usually a Soldier, and takes a Sniper, a Runner or two and sometimes the Mobi.

Rush is over, P1 still at advantage with Snipers on board. P2 lacks vision and tends to scout right into Sniper range with Boosted Soldiers. Spawn another Mobi. Rush again.

The problem is that you can stop this rush, but you can't stop the rush at an advantage, or even at neutral. Exzachtlee showed me that my previous view that Reaper was fair and most players simply needed to learn the correct tactics may be incorrect, and Reaper may need to be edited.

The danger with the Mobi Rush is that you simply don't have the time to prepare. Mobi completely negates the movement costs associated with Snipers and Heavies, and they just pick at your forces until you're too weak to stop the invasion.

[Phyresis]

I always thought that the spawn position on Reaper should have been the space behind where it is currently, that would help prevent this i would think. Im not sure.

[game_taker]

I think I found a good way to counter the mobi rush as p2. However only had the chance to play myself is someone would challenge me I'd like to test it.

[Necrocat219]

Yeah that makes sense, I think I saw a game that both players played to the best of their abilities and ended up with a similar situation. I haven't seen a replay yet where P2 has won without P1 making a mistake, my defenses against it usually fail too.

As it seems imbalanced in that there is no counter

Quote:The problem is that you can stop this rush, but you can't stop the rush at an advantage, or even at neutral.

map balance would probably be the best way to go about balancing the map. Maybe the Heavy needs tampering with, maybe blockades.

The Heavy seems like one possible target for balancing; in it's position for any other team it is hard to get to the other side of the map, making it shine with the Mobi. On the other hand the heavy of the defending team during the rush just acts as a 4hp meatshield.

Adding blockades probably comes to mind first, but it seems like a difficult thing to do; it would probably just mean P1 would have to manoevour slightly differently. Maybe putting a blockade on that special hex that the sniper lands on?

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It seems like a 4 move checkmate that is unstoppable without giving up advantage.