Veggienauts players?

[garcia1000]

Hey guys.

A little about me, I am a Scallywags player. I think that Veggienauts cannot beat Scallywags on any map as either 1p or 2p. Except for strategies that don't involve special units obv, such as foundry rush. Anyone disagree? If so, I will play game as Scallywags and win.

So I was thinking maybe OML is going the route of having deliberately imbalanced matchups? Scallywags might beat Veggienauts, but maybe Adorables can beat Scallywags (like on Reaper), and Veggienauts can beat Adorables. Personally I would like it much more if every team had roughly equal chances against each other. What do you guys think?

[blckace]

You said it and started a war!
I messaged adam suggesting that veggies need a buff, anyway, currently i'm in a game with alvendor and he's veggie, and I'm scallywags! He's very good with veggies believe it or not, so maybe there's more to it, I still think I'm gonna win but we'll see how it goes.

[Harti]

I certainly don't feel that the Veggienauts need a buff but the Scallywags and maybe also the Adorables would need a nerf.

Do not worry that the situation will stay this way forever, however. I have a close eye on the "tier shifts" and although I'm not always right with what I see*, I keep annoying OML with discussions like these on the beta forums. I posted a thread by 11-21-2012...

(11-21-2012 09:33 PM)Harti Wrote:I hope you guys have a close eye on all of the stats and can automatically analyze live replays by using your handy tool.

I've finished 6 live games or so and have got roundabout 10 to go. I chose a variety of different races. I lost or am losing almost every game. A possible valid reason for that would be that I'm using outdated or untested tactics. However, I'm feeling that a Scallywag turtler (not necessarily turtler, also people who know how to push with Bombshells) has still got an advantage.

A handful of games were also decided by the +1 wit rule which completely ruined my attacking forces. I was unable to counterattack due to a lack of useful units (I played Veggienauts each time that happened). Yeah, I had a Bramble around but I don't have any idea how to use the Thorns against a good player. They've got a Bombshell, so they're going to crush my Barriers no matter what, especially thanks to the parent-child mechanic. It ruins pretty much everything...

So how's Veggienauts matchups?

Veggienauts << Feedback (scrambled Barriers act as a Bramble!)
Veggienauts << Scallywags (no way to attack, except you use 4 HP Soldiers only)
Veggienauts <= Adorables (close to even but I assume Mobi grants more flexibility)
Veggienauts == Veggienauts (x)


They don't seem to have an edge over any of the existing teams provided you're playing against good players. This makes them a somewhat bad choice both as P1 and P2 as you've got the massive chance to hit one of your death races, Scallywags or Feedback.


I have no idea about this - but the metagame doesn't seem to have changed at all. It's still 4 HP Soldiers + Bombshells all over the place. It's efficient and effective.

Scallywags >> Veggienauts (If they attack, they most of the time only manage to destroy 1-2 units. In a counterattack you're blasting away 4 or more).
Scallywags >= Feedback (can hold Scramblers at a distance but Scramblers will be able to convert your first Soldier row, possibly destroying at least 1 of your Shells)
Scallywags <= Adorables (Mobisnipers give Adorables a small edge but if defended right it won't help them)
Scallywags == Scallywags (x)


Ya maybe it's just me bitching around while actually everything is fine, but I have the feeling that the game is somewhat broken. The +1 is everything but balanced. As of turn 5, I'm giving p1noyboypj a hard time countering SFI FTA... (he's going to beat me though because I'll probably make some flaws). This is just weird.

The official answer is:

(11-22-2012 06:58 AM)oneadamleft Wrote:We're giving it a while before we run the numbers. Adding iPhone 5 support, then we'll take a pass if we need to.

Yeah time passed by and I eventually asked for some stats that are probably going to be similar to what you describe in your post, garcia.

(12-09-2012 07:56 AM)Harti Wrote:

(11-22-2012 06:58 AM)oneadamleft Wrote:We're giving it a while before we run the numbers. Adding iPhone 5 support, then we'll take a pass if we need to.

Any time for running analyses yet?

I'd mostly be interested in Super-Titan numbers, like so:
- Team Choice overall
- Team Choice, excluding people who only own the free version
- A table showing the win ratios of teams like:

Code:

win % | SW | AD | FB | VN
-------------------------
vs SW | -- | 45 | 35 | 10
vs AD | 55 | -- | 40 | 20
vs FB | 65 | 60 | -- | 40
vs VN | 90 | 80 | 60 | --

^best would be if we had that also grouped by maps!

Well yeah anyway, I'm currently waiting for an answer. It's just a matter of time I guess. I believe that they're gonna wait until two weeks into Season 2, then run the analyses based on S2 games only, then plan whatever it takes to balance it and introduce these changes for Season 3.



* up until now I haven't been wrong though

[Necrocat219]

I'm not sure about BS vs BB debates but I really doubt that scrambler vs BB works our for them. I think that a restriction on scrambling children will definitely come about.

[CombatEX]

They are definitely not deliberately making imbalanced match-ups. Anyway, I hope you get Veggienauts players to play you garcia. Let us know the results. I'd be interested to see the replay if someone does manage to beat you.

[Necrocat219]

Yeah, I'm really aching to see some very close bramble games that demonstrate it well. Personally I've tried a few ranked games with it and its not worked out too well. Eijolend's game was good, the children were used throughout the whole game to protect the snipers.

[the duck]

Until I joined the Mobi clan I playeda lot with Bramble and some times I still doing it.

[TheQwertiest]

(12-12-2012 01:35 AM)garcia1000 Wrote:  Hey guys.

A little about me, I am a Scallywags player. I think that Veggienauts cannot beat Scallywags on any map as either 1p or 2p. Except for strategies that don't involve special units obv, such as foundry rush. Anyone disagree? If so, I will play game as Scallywags and win.

So I was thinking maybe OML is going the route of having deliberately imbalanced matchups? Scallywags might beat Veggienauts, but maybe Adorables can beat Scallywags (like on Reaper), and Veggienauts can beat Adorables. Personally I would like it much more if every team had roughly equal chances against each other. What do you guys think?

i think they are made to counter each other. i think that is the reason why they dont show what team your opponent chose until the game starts

[CombatEX]

I hope you are wrong because that would be a terrible design choice (I'm pretty sure you're wrong though because Alex is a Starcraft fan and balance in all matchups is an important issue in Starcraft).

[TheQwertiest]

(12-12-2012 03:19 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  I hope you are wrong because that would be a terrible design choice (I'm pretty sure you're wrong though because Alex is a Starcraft fan and balance in all matchups is an important issue in Starcraft).

are the teams in SC balanced now? sorry, was never really an SC fan and im not sure if it was really unbalanced before (i think i just sucked) but from what i remember
terran > protos? > zerg.
(that was about 8-10 years ago and i suck at micro.)