Proof the Bombshell should be nerfed?? Check out this game I just had...

[worldfamous]

Garcia talking about 4 vision got me thinking. I think he's on to something. What if you took away that 4th space of vision that bombshell has for the splash markers. I guess what I'm saying is, don't allow splash damage only shots. This would allow the opponent to effectively setup a shell attack. So just to make that clear, I'm not talking about taking away splash damage but rather, restricting the bombshell from attacking unless it has a direct hit in range. Just a thought.

[GreatGonzales]

Or, take away the shell's "radar"-like ability to detect units hiding in the fog of war. Interesting way to nerf..

[garcia1000]

Yes, take away radar is a good idea.

[TheGreatAnt]

(12-07-2012 05:02 AM)Ricky_KK Wrote:  Point taken. IMO, I feel like the range on the BS is too far. Maybe bring it back 1 wit. I had my back to the wall from his second move. At what point do you sit there and say, "ok, maybe this character has too much of an advantage"? I felt this when on the second move, I was fighting just to keep spawning characters.

I am not really sure what to say about that, but I am sure it plays into the P1/P2 advantage.

[CombatEX]

You can take away the radar, but if you do keep splash, you really should let the bombshell attack the space regardless. It seem awfully contrived that a bombshell can't shoot for some reason because you lost vision on the previous turn but you're almost certain a unit is in splash range in the fog. For example, you have vision of a unit in splash range, but on your opponent's final move s/he kills your unit providing vision (no black circle indicator on the top right afterward so you know that unit in splash range is still there). Then, despite knowing the unit is there, your bombshell can't fire for some reason.

So basically, if radar is removed but splash is kept, the bombshell should be given the ability to fire on any hex in range even if no unit is visible on or around that hex. Of course, you could waste your shot like this, but it can be a calculated risk or, as in the scenario mentioned above, you could know a unit is still there.

[game_taker]

(12-07-2012 10:36 AM)game_taker Wrote:  As a nerf option, what if we stopped the bs from hitting nothing?

I still like my idea that would get rid of the 4 range vision, as oppose to getting rid of the radar.

This way you also don't have people randomly shooting b/c they think someone is in the dark, which would add random luck to the game (much like brambles vines do in determining the parent one).

[CombatEX]

What 4 range vision? The only 4 range vision (and this isn't true vision) is from the radar, but you state 4 range vision as if it's something unrelated. Did you mean 4 range splash damage?

Also, I think most high level players wouldn't risk 1 whole wit to shoot in the dark unless they're almost certain a unit is there. Especially because the splash only does 1 damage so risking 1 wit is definitely not worth it if you're really just going for a lucky shot without good reason to believe you will hit something.

[Emuchu]

(12-08-2012 09:55 AM)game_taker Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 10:36 AM)game_taker Wrote:  As a nerf option, what if we stopped the bs from hitting nothing?

I still like my idea that would get rid of the 4 range vision, as oppose to getting rid of the radar.

This way you also don't have people randomly shooting b/c they think someone is in the dark, which would add random luck to the game (much like brambles vines do in determining the parent one).

I'll have to agree with the "lose Radar" option over the "must have a primary target" option. I feel like the ability to hit things within his splash range is a major feature of the Bombshell.

Something I've learned from a large background in competitive gaming is that one of the biggest nerfs you can give to a character is to remove their options. There's no reason to remove the ability to fire into the abyss--your reasoning to remove it is to stop players from firing blindly into the abyss. Well why not? It costs them 1 Wit to do so, and isn't so much a source of "Randomness" as it is a source of "Uncertainty", which has a legitimate place in a strategy game (same thing with Bramble's Thorns). If a player can waste a Wit every turn firing at potentially nothing, shouldn't that be his choice?

On the other hand, the "Radar" is a feature that breaks the game's rules, giving Bombshell intelligence that he shouldn't have for free. Every turn, a Scallywags player can poke on his Bombshell to check if anything's hiding in the fog outside of the Bombshell's vision, and it's my opinion that this ability falls further into the range of "exploitative advantage" than his Splash damage does--it prevents all kinds of potential assaults on Bombshell strongholds. Strategies such as sneaking in a Boosted Sniper or a Soldier wall forward are all nullified due to the Bombshell's frankly incredible vision for a Siege Tank unit. I think the Bombshell should invest that 1 Wit to fire before he finds out what's hiding in that fog.

[worldfamous]

(12-08-2012 12:40 PM)Emuchu Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 09:55 AM)game_taker Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 10:36 AM)game_taker Wrote:  As a nerf option, what if we stopped the bs from hitting nothing?

I still like my idea that would get rid of the 4 range vision, as oppose to getting rid of the radar.

This way you also don't have people randomly shooting b/c they think someone is in the dark, which would add random luck to the game (much like brambles vines do in determining the parent one).

I'll have to agree with the "lose Radar" option over the "must have a primary target" option. I feel like the ability to hit things within his splash range is a major feature of the Bombshell.

Something I've learned from a large background in competitive gaming is that one of the biggest nerfs you can give to a character is to remove their options. There's no reason to remove the ability to fire into the abyss--your reasoning to remove it is to stop players from firing blindly into the abyss. Well why not? It costs them 1 Wit to do so, and isn't so much a source of "Randomness" as it is a source of "Uncertainty", which has a legitimate place in a strategy game (same thing with Bramble's Thorns). If a player can waste a Wit every turn firing at potentially nothing, shouldn't that be his choice?

On the other hand, the "Radar" is a feature that breaks the game's rules, giving Bombshell intelligence that he shouldn't have for free. Every turn, a Scallywags player can poke on his Bombshell to check if anything's hiding in the fog outside of the Bombshell's vision, and it's my opinion that this ability falls further into the range of "exploitative advantage" than his Splash damage does--it prevents all kinds of potential assaults on Bombshell strongholds. Strategies such as sneaking in a Boosted Sniper or a Soldier wall forward are all nullified due to the Bombshell's frankly incredible vision for a Siege Tank unit. I think the Bombshell should invest that 1 Wit to fire before he finds out what's hiding in that fog.

The only reason I put it that way is you can't do one without the other. If you take away the radar, you take away fog splash shots. How could you hit something when there's nothing to target? Either way, I don't expect it will happen.

[Emuchu]

(12-08-2012 03:54 PM)worldfamous Wrote:  The only reason I put it that way is you can't do one without the other. If you take away the radar, you take away fog splash shots. How could you hit something when there's nothing to target? Either way, I don't expect it will happen.

I'm liking the blind-fire option, but I can see why OML wouldn't want to implement such a feature, what with the elegance they're maintaining.