Super-Titan Replay Discussion

Solrek · 08-04-2012, 07:29 AM

Just want to say thanks. Currently a rank 10 in the Master League with 71 total wins. I still consider myself a novice, but these replays helped motivate me a lot to try out different tactics and to try out other races as well.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing some 2v2 replays as well. Love the replay feature OML!

swimj · 08-04-2012, 02:34 PM

(08-03-2012 04:10 PM)nivra0 Wrote:
(08-02-2012 05:56 PM)CombatEX Wrote: Hm. Thanks for the feedback so far. Yes, I did originally want to put mostly the 'highest quality' replays. But as a mere Masters player myself, I don't feel like I would be able to accurately assess which replays are the 'best' to upload.

I think a good place to start would be to (*) any games between top100 players. And then (**) any games between top50 players, and finally (***) games between top20 players. These would be assigned according to the just released rankings, of course.

That should work as a good first pass proxy on the quality of the replay.

Additional replays:
Top50 players: BitPilot vs. me. - Long Nine
BitPilot uses FTA to create lots of early pressure up at the top. I defend while conserving wits, and end up building a decent army at the bottom. When the gambit up top fails, Bit presses an assault at the bottom, but ends up in the teeth of my defense.

FTA on Foundry

And another Top50 with BitPilot. My crucial mistake was turn 18. I got careless and did a horrible noob defense, using my snipes too early, then compensating by moving my heavy impulsively when a soldier would've been fine. That turn was just lolfail.

Was hoping to get some commentary on my play against nivra on foundry. Do you think the opening trade of soldier for sniper was worth it? Also was I too aggressive attacking his wit space early on with runners?

Also when I moved the heavy down towards the end, I was guessing he'd be trying to sneak a soldier there, obviously a bad guess. Any tips on how to deal with loss of vision without having to waste a spawn with runner?

Apocolyptic. · 08-04-2012, 03:51 PM

(08-04-2012 02:34 PM)swimj Wrote: Was hoping to get some commentary on my play against nivra on foundry. Do you think the opening trade of soldier for sniper was worth it? Also was I too aggressive attacking his wit space early on with runners?

Also when I moved the heavy down towards the end, I was guessing he'd be trying to sneak a soldier there, obviously a bad guess. Any tips on how to deal with loss of vision without having to waste a spawn with runner?

well you played that game the way i would have. about the fog, its good to look back and if you have sighted/knew he was somewhere around there then you, first, know where he is at. and second, know what he could do. if you didn't have sight it might be good to count his wit movements (or atleast all that you know for a fact.) then go from there. anything else is either random luck, or like in poker you know your opponent.

Syvan · 08-04-2012, 11:05 PM

(08-04-2012 02:34 PM)swimj Wrote: Was hoping to get some commentary on my play against nivra on foundry. Do you think the opening trade of soldier for sniper was worth it? Also was I too aggressive attacking his wit space early on with runners?

Also when I moved the heavy down towards the end, I was guessing he'd be trying to sneak a soldier there, obviously a bad guess. Any tips on how to deal with loss of vision without having to waste a spawn with runner?

i think you're right, the runner harass at the beginning is probably what sealed it for you. I think trading a soldier for the sniper is usually important on that map, since it can really bulf an offensive. By the end, it doesn't matter if that heavy found a soldier, you had been overrun. Your opponent built (I think) exclusively soldiers, which kind of forces you to do the same. You can get cute with a buffed heavy if they are not buffing their soldiers, or sometimes a sniper, but you will need to tank some damage on that defense.

nivra0 · (This post was last modified: 08-07-2012 03:58 AM by nivra0.)

More replays:
1) Zero killer dismantles me with long nine rush. I welcome suggestions on how I could've defended differently. Honestly, it looks like I just summoned one soldier too few. On turn 6, I should've summoned the soldier up top rather that on bottom.

2 & 3) I play a couple with awpertunity.

4) And one game with JD0426

5) Nailbiter with oneBitLeft

nivra0 · 08-07-2012, 08:53 AM

(08-04-2012 05:37 AM)CombatEX Wrote:
(08-03-2012 04:10 PM)nivra0 Wrote: I think a good place to start would be to (*) any games between top100 players. And then (**) any games between top50 players, and finally (***) games between top20 players. These would be assigned according to the just released rankings, of course.

Okay, I implemented your suggestion. I'm not sure how necessary it is though. I'm open to removing it if people think it unnecessarily clutters the first post. I'm equally fine with keeping it in if people find it helpful. Either way is fine with me.

I love it. I think (***) games are absolute much-watches for someone at my level so that I can move into the top 25.

Thanks a ton.

Alvendor · 08-07-2012, 07:57 PM

(08-06-2012 11:47 AM)nivra0 Wrote: More replays:
1) Zero killer dismantles me with long nine rush. I welcome suggestions on how I could've defended differently. Honestly, it looks like I just summoned one soldier too few. On turn 6, I should've summoned the soldier up top rather that on bottom.

This is probably the map I've lost most on recently as P2 and have forced me to reconsider some of the things I used to do. Earlier I just defended both top and bottom early game and in the mid game crushed the opponent mid/top. But now with stronger opposition that doesn't work anymore. I've also noticed a trend recently that a lot of players rush the top wit square as P1 and do it even earlier than in this game.

Turn 2: I open as you but put a runner in the bottom wit tile. I think both versions are viable. Advantage with my version is more vision and you have the heavy and soldier ready to move in and kill anything attacking your wit tile for a favorable exchange. The disadvantage; it costs one more wit (which can be crucial) and if the opponent moves forward with a runner he can then later in the game take your with space with 3 wits (soldier kills runner, runner takes space). That can cause a lot of trouble if he simultaneously attacks somewhere else on the map as you probably won't have enough wits to defend properly on both fronts.

Turn 4: I don't like the medics move here. This game is really about concentration of force in space and time, by moving the medic to later heal the heavy you are committing wits to something you don't know is necessary yet. You are P2 so you know you need to defend, highest priority should be to determine where the opponent will attack and then act accordingly. I would suggest either moving the medic close to spawn point and put a boosted runner in front of your sniper (the top square for better vision + otherwise you block the path for your heavy) or save wits by not touching the medic and move out a 1 health runner to get vision. On bottom I think you really need a runner as you didn't create one on turn 2. Don't think it matter much where you put it as long as opponent can't move directly from his spawn point with a runner to kill it.

Turn 6: If you had mid runner one square north and a runner bottom you now would have a complete vision of his units. He is adding units both top and bottom so you probably need to do it as well. I've found a sniper top is quite effective to handle that pressure.

Hope it helps, I'm also struggling with this so will appreciate any thoughts/feedback. My biggest improvement came when I started to realize I don't need to just pump out units when defending. Its much better to save the wits, determine where he is attacking and then apply all force at one point to crush him mercilessly =)

swimj · 08-08-2012, 12:32 AM

(08-07-2012 07:57 PM)Alvendor Wrote: I've found a sniper top is quite effective to handle that pressure.

You mean a sniper on bottom, right? Unless you really mean the top, I'd be interested to see a replay of how it works. The top seems too open to effectively place a sniper where it won't be killed by well placed runners.

A sniper on bottom is really helpful though. Especially if you can move it so that it fires right on your wit space. This eliminates some of the difficulty if your opponent does try to take the bottom wit space occupied by a runner by saving the wit needed to move. Another thing I've done (usually when p1, but could still work for p2) is to take the predeployed sniper and move it towards the bottom, along the edge of the base. If you leave a heavy in front of it, then the sniper is pretty hard to kill because it can only hit by one hex but that too can be easily shielded.

I'm also not a big fan of having the medic "take a lap" around the base, although a significant number of players do it. Leaving the medic at the top spawn is optimal, I think, because it has access to both middle and the top wit space. It is also very unlikely for medic to be killed and saves the wits used to move. It seems that attacks do not happen much along the bottom, and a combination of unboosted soldiers/heavy/sniper is enough for me.

nivra0 · 08-08-2012, 04:35 AM

(08-07-2012 07:57 PM)Alvendor Wrote: My biggest improvement came when I started to realize I don't need to just pump out units when defending. Its much better to save the wits, determine where he is attacking and then apply all force at one point to crush him mercilessly =)

That's huge. As you can tell, I've been doing the pump out units strategy. Which means I had soldier at the bottom that was useless, and no soldier at the top, and units possibly out of position.

At some point I had made the strategic decision to sacrifice vision for stronger units (runner for soldiers), using a soldier wall for defense. That worked up till now. And you're right, stronger opponents means that doesn't work anymore.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll test it out and see how it works for me.

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 08-08-2012 07:02 AM by Alvendor.)

(08-08-2012 12:32 AM)swimj Wrote: You mean a sniper on bottom, right? Unless you really mean the top, I'd be interested to see a replay of how it works. The top seems too open to effectively place a sniper where it won't be killed by well placed runners.

Nope, top as well. If he kills my sniper with boosted runners I really don't mind and I can generally defend against 1hp runners with map awareness. As long as I don't move the snipers too much I can trade them for his boosted soldiers.

Here's a long game against Zero_killer where I spawn a lot of snipers top. I defend several attacks but screw up later (turn 34 when I count my wits wrong and fail to attack his base with my heavy and in the end creating a bombshell I had no business creating).

Snipers top

(08-08-2012 04:35 AM)nivra0 Wrote: At some point I had made the strategic decision to sacrifice vision for stronger units (runner for soldiers)

That was exactly how I reasoned earlier.

This is a really extreme example of how powerful the concept of saving wits and only applying force when and where it is needed can be:

Concentration of force