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Super-Titan Replay Discussion - CombatEX - 07-22-2012 02:38 AM
![[Image: supertitanreplay.png]](http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5016/supertitanreplay.png)
Personally I've found one of the best ways to learn in these types of games (RTS/TBS) is through watching and analyzing high level games.
So, anyone willing to share their Super-Titan vs Super-Titan replays?
If so, please submit your replays to the Outwitters Sports Network.
This thread serves as a dedicated place to link to and discuss any Super-Titan level replays and high level trends.
Is the bramble useless? Is FTA still a problem on Foundry? How do you counter the mobi rush on Reaper?
Any kind of discussion on Super-Titan level games is welcome here. If you wish to discuss lower level games you can do so here.
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RE: Super-Titan Replays - nivra0 - 07-22-2012 02:45 AM
Umm... Did you even look thru the threads? There are many marked as ST vs ST. Check page 14
RE: Super-Titan Replays - swimj - 07-22-2012 02:48 AM
Yeah, the poster just wants to make a specific thread for future st replays so there is no need to browse through many pages of replays which are not clearly labelled. I think it's a good idea.
RE: Super-Titan Replays - Syvan - 07-22-2012 05:36 AM
I hope you get a good response, but I suspect you won't because many of the players at the top seem to be secretive about their tactics. I'm a #3 super titan (only if you count the two people who just promoted) I'm definitely not the best, but I almost exclusively match against the people who are.
I'll post a sampling of my recent games. I wish I had a few more to show you, but I haven't been saving them lately.
First up, a match on Sharkfood to demonstrate the importance of exploiting slow unit mobility. After I suspect P1 builds a sniper and moves it in the wrong direction, I successfully rush as P2.
Sharkfood SvA
This is a Long Nine match with frankly a frightening opening, which calms into some turtling and is eventually/unfortunately decided by the first person to move. The end is catalyzed by some Mobi usage.
Long Nine FvA
A failed push on Glitch leads to turtling and finally a Mobi to slide around the defenses and finish the game.
Glitch AvS
Next, a match where I spawn as P1 on Sweetie Pie. After a little back and forth, I exploit the mobility of the Mobi to nestle into the backdoor of the base.
Sweetie Pie AvA
Before you watch the match on Foundry, you should know there is a ridiculous rush that is almost impossible to stop even in P1 tells you it's coming. This is why I turtle so hard at the beginning. I suspected it wasn't coming, but I couldn't be sure he didn't have a different variant.
I finally lose when I overextend myself pushing on his distant wit space.
Foundry AvA
A match on Sweetie Pie where I thought we were starting a turtle race, but he was instead prepping an assault. A poorly timed Mobi purchase does me in.
Sweetie Pie FvA
A match on Peekaboo that essentially turns into a base race. The opponent miscalculates wit at the end and fails to move a scrambler into position.
Peekaboo FvA
Now for a little rant of how most of my games have played out lately, which you should see in many of these matches. Due to first turn advantage, P1 begins at a slight advantage. This forces P2 to begin defensively in an attempt to determine what P1's goals are. If P1 is successful, the game usually ends. If P1 is unsuccessful, P2 has often invested so much in defense that a counterattack is not feasible on larger maps. This often leads to periods of turtling where both players build up defenses and try to imagine a path to victory. Very often the game is lost by the person who attacks first, since it is more costly to attack than to defend. I am concerned that the metagame will eventually evolve to the point where both players simply turtle with an eye on counterattacking.
RE: Super-Titan Replays - Fluffysox - 07-22-2012 06:58 AM
Wow, thank you for all this content syvan!
May I ask what this rush on foundry is?
RE: Super-Titan Replays - Syvan - 07-22-2012 08:04 AM
(07-22-2012 06:58 AM)Fluffysox Wrote: May I ask what this rush on foundry is?
This may be better discussed in its own thread, but I'll just describe it here. The Foundry rush, or at least the variant that works for me, is based on the way the spawn geometry is setup. On turn 5 you can deliver three soldiers (2 boosted), a heavy, and a sniper to the front door not including the wit space soldier.
On the first turn, use the soldier and runner to take wit spaces. This gives you good vision and is necessary for the heavy to move toward the base. Move the sniper up 1 hex toward the enemy base, move the medic next to the spawn closest the enemy base and boost the sniper.
Next turn, spawn 2 soldiers, boost the one near the medic and move the heavy and the soldier toward the enemy base, but stay on your side of the column.
Next turn, move your soldier up, spawn a new soldier, boost and move it up next the last soldier, move the sniper forward again, behind the soldiers, and move the soldier on the wit space.
Next turn, start attacking, but your overall goal should be to sneak a soldier into the little backdoor where you probably win almost all of your foundry games.
There are several ways I've tried defending this, the easiest is to spawn a runner and take out the wit space to remove P1's vision and send your own wit soldier to the backdoor. The rushing player needs to respond with a runner of his own to retake the wit space, which will necessarily modify the rush, and next turn if he sees the soldier moving into position, spawn a soldier of his own.
The best defense seems to be to move the medic to the base spawn, spawn a couple soldiers on turn 4, a heavy on turn 6, and hope for the best. Boost everything you can. I've tried using snipers for defense, but they seem to be quickly dispatched.
I think the real problem is the backdoor on foundry. The rush could be easily crushed, but once that soldier slips into position, it's gg.
RE: Super-Titan Replays - CombatEX - 07-22-2012 08:08 AM
Thanks Syvan. I figured players would be secretive (just like some players in SC2), but there are also many GM streamers as well as people who comment on their games to help others like WhiteRa and CombatEX for instance. So I figured perhaps many (maybe even most) players wouldn't want to reveal their tactics, but that there would be some nice people like you willing to share. Thanks!
And yes, I felt a thread dedicated to this would be useful so people don't have to dig through tons of replays/threads/posts/etc.
RE: Super-Titan Replays - Fluffysox - 07-22-2012 12:36 PM
(07-22-2012 08:08 AM)CombatEX Wrote: Thanks Syvan. I figured players would be secretive (just like some players in SC2), but there are also many GM streamers as well as people who comment on their games to help others like WhiteRa and CombatEX for instance. So I figured perhaps many (maybe even most) players wouldn't want to reveal their tactics, but that there would be some nice people like you willing to share. Thanks!
RE: Super-Titan Replays - swimj - 07-22-2012 01:27 PM
Sharkfood Rush Survived
Another ST vs ST on sharkfood (different that the one already posted). P1 rushes and gets me down to 1 base health, but gives me a big unit advantage which quickly turns into a win for me. I actually think the FTA is not that big on sharkfood because the map is so small that if p1 fails their rush then p2 can very quickly counter.
Whenever I'm p2 I simply push out soldiers until I have 4/5 and feel good about my defense. If I haven't been attacked yet, I make a runner and look around and think about strategy, most likely get a special unit next turn. But I actually find it easier to deal with a rushing opponent since I know that their base will be undefended afterwards and easy to attack.
RE: Super-Titan Replays - mmorrison - 07-22-2012 03:18 PM
I don't know whether he cares if I post this, but oh well.
Here is a game I was playing against zero killer. He started out as player 1, and as you see I was on defense the whole time.
The thing that really got me was his sniper, I couldn't take it out because I couldn't get close enough with my soldiers and whenever I tried to save two runners to take it out he would pick one off with his own runner.
His sniper kept me right in front of my base, I couldn't even hold the wit space in front of my base for long. As defense on foundry, I think its very important to take out the sniper as early as possible.
Foundry
Another game with zero killer. This one was interesting because even though I foolishly took out his soldier with my soldier and runner that I soon lost, which gave him a distinct unit advantage since I was player two, I was still able to come back.
I freaked out a bit on turn 9 when he swarmed me and took out my heavy, but by taking out the heavy I was able to even the odds and force him to regroup.
However, I think I lost the game on turn 16 when I spawned a runner instead of a soldier, because I had extra wits to spare and after he took out one of my soldiers I really had no chance.
Sharkfood is one that can easily go either way, even if your player two.
Sharkfood