Update!!

[CombatEX]

(01-29-2013 05:46 PM)QuantumApocalypse Wrote:  It's probably better and less confusing for 'fun' points to be the main concern for players, especially for those who are somewhat basic and not on the forums. The focus on boosting hidden rankings was quite unintentional and stated previously as not the main focus of the game. Rather, competitive nature within leagues themselves.

Yes, the focus isn't supposed to be on boosting hidden ranking, but I interpret that differently than you. While you see that statement implying that we "shouldn't focus on how our skill level is improving but rather on trying to boost some unrelated numerical value to compete in our division", I see it as "we shouldn't focus on what our hidden-rating is because we have a point system which is a decent representation of our skill anyway". However, this substitute is non-existent with 'fun' points. So instead what this achieves is leaving players in the dark in regards to their skill. Yes, there are leagues. However leagues are huge and a player at the top of a particular league (in hidden-rating) is at a very different level than a player at the bottom (especially in Fluffy and Clever where the leagues are ~40%).

Quote:While people on the top 200 mightn't be too elated about the game becoming fun point orientated, it'd definitely boost the fun and competitive spirit within the lower leagues and skill levels.

At any rate, I wouldn't be so sure about this. In terms of fun, some people enjoy grinding (*cough* KRPGs *cough*), but many people do not. 'Fun' points are all about churning out as many games as possible and not about improving yourself. Doesn't sound very 'fun' to me. Now how about improving competitiveness? If you want the focus to be on competitive play within a league, how would 'skill points' not promote competition? I couldn't have cared less about the points back before seasons because I knew I had no chance of beating the people who played 20 games a week since I only played 2. However, once seasons started I was actually interested in points (until I got into the top 200) because I was finally able to have a shot at the top. But let's not just talk about me, how about the player-base as a whole?

Ultimately fun points are terrible for competition compared to skill points because in any game you always have the people who devote every free moment to it and then hoards of average and casual players. With activity-based points you just have the few people who play Outwitters obsessively actually competing while all the moderate and casual players have no hope. Skill points are great because even someone who plays casually can always have hope of making it to the top provided they improve in ability. Even if it may not be likely for some, it's the fact that it's possible for anyone to make it up there if they improve without having to devote extreme amounts of time to the game.

(01-29-2013 06:10 PM)Eijolend Wrote:  The zero-sum system before basically didn't measure skill, but only how much you improved since the league started (which is better than activity only). I'm glad there's some change to that.

Different points lost/gained are needed if you want to force the score to converge towards a rating more in line with your hidden rating (considering SC2 does something similar).
Of course without knowing the formulas beneath it's hard to say whether the change does that, so we just have to wait and see how it looks.

You're absolutely right. Although I'd add that it also showed players who were under-rated by match-making after placing even if they hadn't improved at all. At any rate, I agree that zero-sum isn't going to work out too well and is the reason I still thing bonus pool is the way to go.