so does turn 3 special on Reaper = win?

[ElPared]

I'm wondering if anyone's noticed this, and also kind of venting. I've noticed player 1 spawning special units on turn 3 (their second turn) and then winning shortly after.

Veggies can make a bramble and kill your sniper and/or harass your wit space/spawn while inching their sniper toward your base, Adorables of course have the Mobi rush, Feedback can copy the Mobi rush with a Scrambler, Scally can send a Bombshell up the center and poke at your base while you struggle to kill it.

maybe I'm just a terrible player or something, but it seems like I lose 90% of my games as P2 on Reaper unless I follow some ridiculous counter tactic I have to memorize.

[Emuchu]

Reaper is an unusual map in that there are a LOT of very powerful P1 strategies that can be employed by each team, as you said.

It takes a lot of metagaming to be successful as P2, but the good thing is that many of the P1 rush strategies have a "tell" (such as unusual Runner placement or a delay in taking the Wit Space) as well as a hard counter. I recommend you find a training partner and drill through the common P1 Reaper openings, especially the intensely speedy Mobi and Scrambler variants, as it takes quite a few tries before their subtleties become apparent.

One such quirk is the precision of the opening layout: most rushes must deal a very optimized amount of damage by moving the pre-deployed units and managing spawns and Wits in very specific ways, meaning that, for the most part, you have a very good idea of what your opponent is about to pull and can try to counter it. In the Titan league, Reaper matches have become insane poker mind games where both sides try to mislead the other into making a single mistake which costs them the game!

The short version: For every hyper-optimized P1 opening, there is a hyper-optimized P2 counter for it, but the hard part for BOTH players is guessing whether his opponent has the correct plan. Sorry to say it, but this is probably the top map to practice openings on (and Foundry, I suppose).

[laYahooz]

I always do that scrambler rush (lol giving away tactics).

To counter it just move that heavy away. In fact, that heavy is better dead than alive.
Mobi rush can only be slowed down. While slowing it down find a way to win!
Hadn't played against the new veggie team on reaper.
Never had bombshell issues yet on reaper but I'm sure they exist

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So I don't think turn 3 = win. I've won a good amount of P2 games (though it is harder)

[ElPared]

yeah all I'm saying is it's ridiculous to have to memorize a bunch of rushes and counters to them. It turns the matches into "who can do the thing they memorized without screwing it up" instead of "find a way to beat your opponent's unique strategy"

I know how to counter the mobi rush, and the scrambler rush is even easier, I just hate that I have to do it in the first place.

sorry I usually don't start threads just to vent/complain, but Reaper used to be one of my favorite maps and now I am SO close to just giving up whenever I get it, whether I'm P1 or P2.

[Emuchu]

(03-10-2013 06:41 AM)ElPared Wrote:  yeah all I'm saying is it's ridiculous to have to memorize a bunch of rushes and counters to them. It turns the matches into "who can do the thing they memorized without screwing it up" instead of "find a way to beat your opponent's unique strategy"

I know how to counter the mobi rush, and the scrambler rush is even easier, I just hate that I have to do it in the first place.

sorry I usually don't start threads just to vent/complain, but Reaper used to be one of my favorite maps and now I am SO close to just giving up whenever I get it, whether I'm P1 or P2.

That's just what happens when people find "easy win" strategies, they get adopted quickly without most players really learning their quirks. The thing is, though, that a lot of the Mobi and Scrambler openings aren't guaranteed, and if anything, they're incredibly risky! They're guessing games where getting predicted by your opponent spells your immediate demise. I used to play a lot of Reaper Rush games against Exzachtlee where I would send a suicide Runner out to bite one of his Snipers and completely ruin his strategy--these rushes are often completely destroyed by a bit of preparation. Of course, then we started tweaking our openings and ruining each other. It's a lot of fun. But when playing a stranger in league, they're probably banking on their opponent being under-prepared, and you just have to be ready to force that Mobi rush right back down their throats.

[laYahooz]

(03-10-2013 06:41 AM)ElPared Wrote:  yeah all I'm saying is it's ridiculous to have to memorize a bunch of rushes and counters to them. It turns the matches into "who can do the thing they memorized without screwing it up" instead of "find a way to beat your opponent's unique strategy"

I know how to counter the mobi rush, and the scrambler rush is even easier, I just hate that I have to do it in the first place.

sorry I usually don't start threads just to vent/complain, but Reaper used to be one of my favorite maps and now I am SO close to just giving up whenever I get it, whether I'm P1 or P2.

I agree it is kind of dumb when you know exactly what your opponent is going to do and you can't effectively stop it.

I never rush as adorables because its boring for me. The scrambler rush is more strategic IMO. Guess you just have to deal with it