Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill)

[2dhh]

(11-01-2012 05:44 AM)Ravernoth Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 05:41 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  Hmm. I don't really feel the effects of the FTA too much. Sure there is some, but I don't think it is noticeable or plays a really large part like in 1v1.

Could that be due to the fact that you are usually significantly better than your opponents though?

I'm significantly worse than my opponents and I also don't feel that FTA in 2v2 is a big problem. How would you define 'first', anyway? P1 and P3? P1 and P2?

[Samura|]

FTA for 2v2 would be for P1 and P3.

FTA usually becomes more apparent in the higher leagues with players of a similar calibre. As I was moving up the league from Fluffy, I was playing most games as P2 and didn't even consider FTA to be an issue. I was winning most of my games, the few games I lost was usually due to some kind of rush on a small map. I generally took the loss as a learning experience and didn't put it down to FTA, however once I became aware of FTA I did notice that every single loss of mine was as P2.

Moving up the league (currently high Gifted) and participating more in the forums, I've become more aware of FTA and certainly play more 'cautiously' as P2 in the early stages of the game. Tourney results seem to validate the existence of FTA in 1v1, as does the data released by OML. I'd expect 2v2 data to show a similar advantage for 2v2, would certainly be interested to see any data that OML can pull out!

@Mr. Banger: You guys probably have amazing W/L ratios, therefore perhaps FTA doesn't at first glance appear to be a major factor for you. Still, I'd be interested to know what your W/L ratio was as P1/P3, vs as P2/P4, if you keep such records?

[Mr.Banger]

@samural We've had much more games as p1 than with p2. But in both cases, we've lost one game each.

[GreatGonzales]

(11-01-2012 11:31 PM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  @samural We've had much more games as p1 than with p2. But in both cases, we've lost one game each.

Hah, so you guys have only lost twice ever?? Sheesh.

[Ravernoth]

(11-01-2012 11:31 PM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  @samural We've had much more games as p1 than with p2. But in both cases, we've lost one game each.

Yeah you basically don't lose as you are better than your opponents, hence FTA doesn't show.

I agree communication is key, but that is part of skill in 2v2. If you were playing against teams who were closer in skill and communication as yourselves, FTA would be much more apparent.

Oh, and great W/L, that's impressive

[Mr.Banger]

Ya. We are only gifted in 1v1 however. So communication plays a much larger role than people think. And I agree with you that if a team had about equal communication as us it would be much tougher. One of our losses is posted in the 2v2 replay thread as us going second. We were almost able I overcome FTA but slipped up one move. The people we played were cousins and the names were dewdundency and someone else. We have two games going second against them. The other game lost was against texadian going first actually after a critical lapse in communication at the deciding moment.

[worldfamous]

With 2v2, FTA can easily be flipped by attacking first with enough resources. Throw in the additional wits for kills and I would imagine this would be the case even more so.

[Samura|]

@worldfamous: I don't think that's too dissimilar with 1v1... i.e. FTA can always be overturned if you play smart (and with 2v2, if you have great communication with your partner!)

Still, this works both ways. If P1+P3 use their FTA to attack first with enough resources (and they'll always have that little bit more resources than P2+P4), then throw in the additional wits-for-kills and this could be even more pronounced.

I think you guys (together with Mr.Banger & alexjiang) are probably amongst the very top 2v2 players out there, so you probably feel it much less than some of the rest of us .

[Mr.Banger]

(11-02-2012 04:57 PM)Samura| Wrote:  @worldfamous: I don't think that's too dissimilar with 1v1... i.e. FTA can always be overturned if you play smart (and with 2v2, if you have great communication with your partner!)

Still, this works both ways. If P1+P3 use their FTA to attack first with enough resources (and they'll always have that little bit more resources than P2+P4), then throw in the additional wits-for-kills and this could be even more pronounced.

I think you guys (together with Mr.Banger & alexjiang) are probably amongst the very top 2v2 players out there, so you probably feel it much less than some of the rest of us .

That's why it is so important to have a partner you know in real life. I know The two times we lost were against people who were close irl. And I'm sure wf and diemfdie are friends outside of outwitters

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Also, it is much harder to attack in 2v2 than 1v1 because the opposing team normally can defend with no problem. Just like chess if you have 4 sets, sort of like bughouse.

[worldfamous]

(11-03-2012 02:46 PM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  

(11-02-2012 04:57 PM)Samura| Wrote:  @worldfamous: I don't think that's too dissimilar with 1v1... i.e. FTA can always be overturned if you play smart (and with 2v2, if you have great communication with your partner!)

Still, this works both ways. If P1+P3 use their FTA to attack first with enough resources (and they'll always have that little bit more resources than P2+P4), then throw in the additional wits-for-kills and this could be even more pronounced.

I think you guys (together with Mr.Banger & alexjiang) are probably amongst the very top 2v2 players out there, so you probably feel it much less than some of the rest of us .

That's why it is so important to have a partner you know in real life. I know The two times we lost were against people who were close irl. And I'm sure wf and diemfdie are friends outside of outwitters

---

Also, it is much harder to attack in 2v2 than 1v1 because the opposing team normally can defend with no problem. Just like chess if you have 4 sets, sort of like bughouse.

Yep, we are. We are always communicating in chat and texting, and even a phone call to discuss some of the tougher situations.