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+--- Thread: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) (/showthread.php?tid=819)
Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Samura| - 10-30-2012 05:35 PM
I know there's been much less posted about FTA in 2v2, however I do think it exists although perhaps the magnitude may not immediately appear as large because your teammate can help out with defending weak spots and protecting medics (before P1 gets his turn again).
Mathematically, once bonus wit spaces are taken, the advantage is +6, 0, +6, 0, and so on.
The reason I'm raising this now is because of the +1 wit for kill. I know OML think it's a positive change for the game, and I'm personally undecided therefore am not resisting the change. However I do feel that this +1wit change does create some further incremental FTA. It rewards the attacker, and P1 (with P3) will always have more units on the field first. I'm less concerned about 1v1 because you will be addressing FTA by giving P2 8 wits. However, if nothing is done for 2v2, then the +1wit change could tilt the balance to make FTA quite severe in 2v2. As it is, there are maps where P1+P3 can rush the base v quickly (Machination springs to mind). The wit for kill change could tilt the wit balance towards +8, 0, +8, 0 (for a few turns), and make it very difficult to stop a P1+P3 rush (whilst also protecting your sniper etc).
Therefore please think about about also addressing 2v2 FTA in the next major update to avoid the problem of 2v2 being 'broken' until the next update. A reasonable fix would be for P2 to start with 7 wit, P4 with 6 wit. Therefore by turn 3, the wit balance would become +3, -3, +3, -3.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Ravernoth - 10-30-2012 08:27 PM
(10-30-2012 05:35 PM)Samura| Wrote: Therefore please think about about also addressing 2v2 FTA in the next major update to avoid the problem of 2v2 being 'broken' until the next update. A reasonable fix would be for P2 to start with 7 wit, P4 with 6 wit. Therefore by turn 3, the wit balance would become +3, -3, +3, -3.
Yes I agree - 2v2 seems to be somewhat overlooked at the moment, both with FTA and the Top players list.
(this is a partial repost)
The FTA advantage is definitely there in 2v2, and can be felt against well organized teams.
In terms of wit balance, the fair amount to add to the second team is 3 wits, if OML would consider the asymmetric setup:
P2 starting with 7 wits and P4 with 6.
T1 = Team 1, T2 = Team 2
2 bonus wit spaces per team
'Correct' but asymmetric setup - 2 wits extra to P2, 1 wit to P4
Code:
Turn 1 2 3 4 5 6
T1 Total Wits 5 5 10 10 16 16
T2 Total Wits 0 7 7 13 13 19
T1 Advantage +5 -2 +3 -3 +3 -3Current Imbalance
Code:
Turn 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
T1 Total Wits 5 5 10 10 16 16 22
T2 Total Wits 0 5 5 10 10 16 16
T1 Advantage +5 0 +5 0 +6 0 +6If for whatever reason the asymmetric setup is not appealing, adding 2 wits to Team 2 would be an improvement but would still leave FTA:
Proposed setup - 1 wit extra each for P2 and P4
Code:
Turn 1 2 3 4 5 6
T1 Total Wits 5 5 10 10 16 16
T2 Total Wits 0 6 6 12 12 18
T1 Advantage +5 -1 +4 -2 +4 -2RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Alvendor - 10-31-2012 04:12 AM
I completely agree. I would also go so far as to argue that current FTA for 2v2 is just as problematic as for 1v1. It took a while for people to realize the problem with FTA in 1v1 and the same process is probably happening in 2v2 as well. As 2v2 is more complex and less matches are played it probably takes longer for people to reach their skill level plateau.
I'll post in another thread a rush on Candy Core Mine I suspect might be an autowin with current FTA.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - CombatEX - 10-31-2012 04:45 AM
I concur. I haven't played 2v2 in the beta, but I find it hard to believe the FTA fix hasn't been applied there. Is this true? Well I guess I could go check for myself now =P But regardless, it really needs to be there. Why would FTA fix only be applied in 1v1?
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Gf!sh - 10-31-2012 05:11 AM
Seriously, if the FTA fix isn't applied yet on 2v2, please do! In general, i think 2v2 is a bit neglected (yes i did look up that word in the dictionary
). It just feels so wrong that it just doesn't seem to get the appreciation it deserves.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Ravernoth - 10-31-2012 07:54 AM
Yes, hopefully Alex and Adam see this in time.
2v2 should definitely have the FTA fix rolled out as well, rather than having it be possibly further broken by +1 wit while waiting for the next patch.
There isn't time no test it, but it's a change that doesn't need testing - it is just correcting the current mathematical imbalance of wits.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Mr.Banger - 11-01-2012 05:41 AM
Hmm. I don't really feel the effects of the FTA too much. Sure there is some, but I don't think it is noticeable or plays a really large part like in 1v1.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Ravernoth - 11-01-2012 05:44 AM
(11-01-2012 05:41 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote: Hmm. I don't really feel the effects of the FTA too much. Sure there is some, but I don't think it is noticeable or plays a really large part like in 1v1.
Could that be due to the fact that you are usually significantly better than your opponents though?
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - GreatGonzales - 11-01-2012 06:19 AM
I think there is some FTA in 2v2, but to a lesser degree than 1v1. Without thinking about it very much...it does seem plausible that the +1 wit for kill could make the FTA worse for 2v2.. To what degree, I don't know.
RE: Alex&Adam: please also address FTA in 2v2 (given +1wit for kill) - Mr.Banger - 11-01-2012 09:07 AM
(11-01-2012 05:44 AM)Ravernoth Wrote:(11-01-2012 05:41 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote: Hmm. I don't really feel the effects of the FTA too much. Sure there is some, but I don't think it is noticeable or plays a really large part like in 1v1.
Could that be due to the fact that you are usually significantly better than your opponents though?
Maybe. But with good play, I think FTA can be overcome against anyone in 2v2 because its not so much individual skill as it is communication. The team with better communication in 2v2 is more likely to win.
And I agree with greatgonzales in that the 1 wit per kill would make 2v2 much harder to play.