Revenue Suggestion plus Mockup

rossP · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 09:32 AM by rossP.)

I made a post in the revenue suggestion thread and was told that I should make my own thread to get more attention. So here's my post on revenue ideas, as well as I quick mockup I did of how the game lobby could be re-designed to facilitate some of these.

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I found out about the game through the Wired article (actually I found out about it in the morning meeting) and I've been playing since. I've only bought the feedback team (sorry, cute team isn't my thing). I play a lot, but I don't think I've come near the 35 game limit. I am looking forward to the addition of new bases (might purchase) and the new veggie team (will purchase).

Here's what I would do.

Change the icon. It kind of sucks. You have lots of great art already - use it. The current icon doesn't really fit the game.

Don't change the game as it is; don't change it to paid. Don't spin off leagues as paid. In other words, don't take away existing content from your current player base. It won't go well. You have to add content. If you change how certain things work (game limits, for example), you need to grandfather your existing players in. Don't take away. Fill in the gaps that are missing instead.

Offline mode. Sometimes people are unresponsive. Sometimes I just want to practice against a computer. Offline mode also gives you a whole new area to sell stuff fo, such as campaigns, AI types, or even just things you couldn't do in multiplayer because of balance issues (such as stronger bases, special units, etc).

Additional Game Modes. See above, and other suggestions around here. Keep random and league games as is, but add new game modes in the store. Speed runs, etc.

Game Slots. Right now it goes 5 > 20 > 35. You should think about having it be incremental. Ie, instead of jumping from 5 - 20 after a purchase, and then jumping to 35. You should consider just having a 'Add 5 Game Slots' item in the store that just adds 5 more slots to however many you've purchased. 5 > 10 > 15 > 20 > 25 > 30 > 35. Get rid of the instant 20 game slots for a purchase (grandfather it in of course, maybe include the 35 limit in the Uber Pack).

Aesthetics. It works for Team Fortress 2, you just need to find your hat equivalent. Allow people to buy additional colors to play as, allow them to buy additional bases, allow them to reskin their teams. None of these things would affect gameplay. You can sell additional colors for .99, additional bases for .99, different skins for .99, etc etc. By skins I just mean adding texture options for existing teams. An undead look, an alternate look, an 8-bit look, lots of options there. Add avatars and then sell avatar packs. Right now the cheapest store item is 2.99, these cheap (and cheap to produce) packs fill that gap. I'm sure you can whip up additional color / avatar packs in no time at all compared to building new teams / maps / bases. All the art is already there. Just sell it!

Uber Pack could be all teams / maps / game limits.
Aesthetics Pack could be all skins / avatars / bases / colors.

Donate button / Flags. Free to play games survive not on having a lot of people giving small amounts of money, but by having a monied elite spending way more than any sane person would that subsidizes the rest. You need to be able to survive off of the 2% of people who actually buy stuff, and the 1% that actually will buy everything they can. Give those people an incentive to donate by giving them flags on their bases that correspond to money spent in the store or via donations. Alternatively, you implement a badge system of some kind, but I think flags would work best.

1 flag - you've bought something in the store.
2 flags - you've bought everything in the store.
3 flags - you've spent xx amount of money.
4 flags - you've spent xxx amount of money.

There might only be a few people getting up to 3 / 4 flags, but they help subsidize the rest of your playerbase.

League: Make it easier for people to see where they stand out of all users. Make it easier to see how to move up, when it could happen, how much work you have to do. If people are unresponsive, say about a couple days, have it be an automatic forfeit.

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TLDR:
Make an offline mode.
Change Icon.
Sell avatars, colors, base types, skins, whatever you possibly can that doesn't affect gameplay.
Sell offline only items (extra wit, stronger bases, hard mode, etc) that only affect the offline game.
Continue to sell teams, incrementalize game limit increases, consider selling maps.
Have a donate system with flags / badges for people who want to spend more.
Edit: Make the league system less opaque. I want to see where I stand among all users, how much work I have to do to get promoted, when that might happen, etc.

Do not take away existing features. Do not spin off features as paid items. Don't forget about your users!

Spin this as Outwitters 2.0, and you'd get publicity. If you guys can turn this thing around, it's the kind of thing that can make a good story, and that'll mean more publicity.

The Mockup on imgur: http://imgur.com/z6o2q

GoHeat 3 · 10-22-2012, 09:11 AM

I've bought everything in the store and will continue to buy whatever is in the store! Also, I agree the icon needs to be changed.

**TheQwertiest** · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 09:46 AM by TheQwertiest.)

it would be interesting to hear alexs or adams feedback on this. maybe the offline mode might be a bit too hard to make but everything else seems doable.

mable-ghaban · 10-22-2012, 07:32 PM

An offline mode should be trivial (it is already implemented with passnplay),

A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Emuchu · 10-22-2012, 08:39 PM

(10-22-2012 07:32 PM)mable-ghaban Wrote: An offline mode should be trivial (it is already implemented with passnplay),

A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Well, we wouldn't need too much out of the AI. If you've ever played a TBS game like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem, the AI in those games are pretty simple, either playing aggressively (move into range and attack) or passively (sit and wait), with most of the challenge coming from having the opponent's forces stacked against you in terms of numbers / positioning / awesomeness. A campaign mode with dedicated maps could be something fun to play.

Single player Outwitters... with a plot? Even a nonsensical one, I'd buy. I've been craving a good solo TBS on iOS, and I just can't like Great Big War Game for some reason.

Gf!sh · 10-22-2012, 08:50 PM

(10-22-2012 08:39 PM)Emuchu Wrote:
(10-22-2012 07:32 PM)mable-ghaban Wrote: An offline mode should be trivial (it is already implemented with passnplay),

A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Well, we wouldn't need too much out of the AI. If you've ever played a TBS game like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem, the AI in those games are pretty simple, either playing aggressively (move into range and attack) or passively (sit and wait), with most of the challenge coming from having the opponent's forces stacked against you in terms of numbers / positioning / awesomeness. A campaign mode with dedicated maps could be something fun to play.

Single player Outwitters... with a plot? Even a nonsensical one, I'd buy. I've been craving a good solo TBS on iOS, and I just can't like Great Big War Game for some reason.

For the single player idea, if it has a plot, (in my opinion) it HAS to be a nonsensical one Cool

Kamikaze28 · 10-23-2012, 05:59 AM

(10-22-2012 07:32 PM)mable-ghaban Wrote: A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Foreseeing this topic in a brief flash of clairvoyance, I wrote an extensive post about the difficulties of creating an AI for Outwitters back in April. This might be an interesting read for people who want to scratch the surface of AI research and development.

2dhh · 10-23-2012, 10:32 PM

OP echoes my sentiments and shows effort in the post. I really hope Adam and Alex will take up some of the suggestion. However I know they are busy working on veggienauts beta so this might take time.

I remembered an OML announcement some months back about outwitters merchandise that wasn't good quality so it never hit the stores? Maybe OMLhas their own ideas, and are dealing with merchandise issues. But all in all, it is good to know they've not given up on this game.

worldfamous · 10-23-2012, 10:44 PM

(10-22-2012 08:39 PM)Emuchu Wrote:
(10-22-2012 07:32 PM)mable-ghaban Wrote: An offline mode should be trivial (it is already implemented with passnplay),

A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Well, we wouldn't need too much out of the AI. If you've ever played a TBS game like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem, the AI in those games are pretty simple, either playing aggressively (move into range and attack) or passively (sit and wait), with most of the challenge coming from having the opponent's forces stacked against you in terms of numbers / positioning / awesomeness. A campaign mode with dedicated maps could be something fun to play.

Single player Outwitters... with a plot? Even a nonsensical one, I'd buy. I've been craving a good solo TBS on iOS, and I just can't like Great Big War Game for some reason.

Single player with a plot would be a huge investment with very high risk. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like fun but unlikely to happen. Probably the best bet would be a puzzle mode where you would have to complete challenges with a set amount of wits. The +1 wit/kill mechanic would work well for something like that.

the duck · 10-24-2012, 12:05 AM

(10-23-2012 10:44 PM)worldfamous Wrote:
(10-22-2012 08:39 PM)Emuchu Wrote:
(10-22-2012 07:32 PM)mable-ghaban Wrote: An offline mode should be trivial (it is already implemented with passnplay),

A good AI is however not trivial, specially in a game like this(Anyone ever tried building a chess AI knows what im talking about). You could probably make a simple AI and after a few computer games the computer player gets extra wits/extra hp/extra starting units/better units/etc. This is a bit risky though, since it might be boring to play a poor AI with lots of handicap, not really sure.

Well, we wouldn't need too much out of the AI. If you've ever played a TBS game like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem, the AI in those games are pretty simple, either playing aggressively (move into range and attack) or passively (sit and wait), with most of the challenge coming from having the opponent's forces stacked against you in terms of numbers / positioning / awesomeness. A campaign mode with dedicated maps could be something fun to play.

Single player Outwitters... with a plot? Even a nonsensical one, I'd buy. I've been craving a good solo TBS on iOS, and I just can't like Great Big War Game for some reason.

Single player with a plot would be a huge investment with very high risk. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like fun but unlikely to happen. Probably the best bet would be a puzzle mode where you would have to complete challenges with a set amount of wits. The +1 wit/kill mechanic would work well for something like that.

Now that's a great idea, a puzzle mode when you need to compleat a specific mission in a specific situation. About the story mode, I can see a good plot in my mind but the game itself just can't work, you can't play outwitters with machines