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+--- Forum: Outwitters (/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Scrambling to the Top (/showthread.php?tid=2207)
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Necrocat219 - 06-09-2013 09:37 PM
Aha, no idea, but playing them at the moment, but they just focus on building up multiple soldier walls, it's not too hard to exploit.
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Alvendor - 06-09-2013 10:09 PM
The map that has caused me most headache so far is Thorn Gulley Feedback vs Scallys. It feels like there aren't too many options how to play it. Take a look at this position. Opponent hasn't lost that much so he has some units hidden/wits saved. What is my strategy here?
[attachment=325]
I think against a random opponent it is best to mass units on the right side and try to catch him unprepared. If I can hold his wit space for a couple of turns I win.
But now assume I am up against a top ST player. Then he knows my best chance is to invade on the right side so he will get vision, mass 4hp soldiers and maybe setup a bombshell covering his wit space. What are my options now?
I found two ST replays, sadly feedback looses in both
Notice in the first game how Bombshell Kid starts massing 4hp soldiers on his wit side when he sees nothing is happening on the rest of the map.
http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YkJG_Aww
http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YiNDFAww
RE: Scrambling to the Top - ElPared - 06-10-2013 05:40 AM
in my experience, Bombshells in that position are unbeatable with Feedback. I have never won a game against S when they had a BS there except as Adorables and sometimes as Veggienauts (I've only played AS S there so no experience with SvS). I've had limited success sneaking a Scrambler up the middle on the right side, but it's only helpful if you can scramble a Heavy and murder their BS which isn't likely because they'll find the Scrambler through splashes.
a rush up the right side is your best bet I think, especially if you can send a scrambler or two that way to try and turn their defenses against them before they have the wits for another BS. Even then, Scramblers are so easy to kill that you'll probably end up behind unless they're properly reinforced.
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Necrocat219 - 06-13-2013 01:38 AM
I think investing in a lot of sniper support on that side is very important and it eases you off having to occupy it with a soldier so much, I've often spawned 2 snipers left so I haven't had to occupy it. The majority of games I've won on thorn gulley are through capturing and outlasting the opponent on the right side or going for a fast battle through the middle. In the position you're in with a swarm of units in the middle seems hardest against all the races, although that being the case means you can place your scrambler(s) closer to the center for more flexibility. Again, in that position I would stay out of the way of the bombshell and aim to spawn and move snipers towards the centre in order to make up for the lack of presence and use the possibility of the scrambler a intimidation in the centre (up to you to spawn or not, probably best to) But really, attacking down the right side to eventually occupy the spawn or defend the wit with a sniper seems best. Its been a while so sorry that it's very vague.
RE: Scrambling to the Top - TheGreatAnt - 06-13-2013 02:58 AM
When I played Feedback, I always struggled with Thorn Gully against Scallywags. I have won a couple, but only because I took out the BS quickly.
RE: Scrambling to the Top - TheGoldenGriffin - 06-13-2013 03:20 AM
Taking out all the runners would i be good start i guess
If you send units from the left and middle at the same time, the Bombshell has to chose to fire at the middle units or the left units. Then you focus your attack on the side that the Bombshell didn't fire and help the other side recover.
If you take out all his runners and push, he pretty much has a soldier and heavy to defend, other than his Bombshell which can fire at only one side or the other. Just stay out of direct fire and you should be good.
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Alvendor - 06-14-2013 07:43 AM
(06-13-2013 01:38 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: I think investing in a lot of sniper support on that side is very important and it eases you off having to occupy it with a soldier so much, I've often spawned 2 snipers left so I haven't had to occupy it.
On my bad days I take the wit space with a runner and then forget to remove it from bombshell splash damage =/ Think taking it with a soldier is default against scallywags and then letting them splash once or twice if they want to. I don't mind them taking my soldier down to 1hp if I can then use it to take out one of their runners, or moving it back and healing it. When the soldier is removed from the wit space snipers are probably good as you said.
Usually I don't like leaving wit spaces unoccupied as it allows opponent to spend one wit to occupy it with a runner at the same time as launching an attack elsewhere. This forces me to spend more than one wit to retake the wit space while I have to defend the attack. But scallywags can rarely be that aggressive so think its fine in this case.
(06-13-2013 03:20 AM)TheGoldenGriffin Wrote: If you send units from the left and middle at the same time, the Bombshell has to chose to fire at the middle units or the left units. Then you focus your attack on the side that the Bombshell didn't fire and help the other side recover.
Yeah it can work deciding just to eat one bombshell hit and continue with the attack, as long you have good knowledge of his units. You need to be sure he hasn't another bombshell somewhat in range.
One way to make it harder for scallywags could maybe be to put 4hp soldiers quite aggressive both mid and on the right sight. This forces opponent to defend at both places, but when I attack I move all of my units to one of the sides.
If the opponents heavy is on the mid wit space it could also be possible to threaten with a hidden scrambler. Scrambling the heavy together with following it up with a soldier ends the game in one turn. I tried it in one of the games above but failed miserably because of a miscalculation..
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Mag!cGuy - 06-19-2013 07:58 PM
I will post my replays where I used scrambler in a tacticalway, as you said in the other thread.
First one: outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y8tvcAww
RE: Scrambling to the Top - Alvendor - 06-19-2013 08:08 PM
The more the merrier!
RE: Scrambling to the Top - terenceshiu2005 - 06-19-2013 08:11 PM
(with scrambler out)
001) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y0MSqAww
002) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YofqwAww
003) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y7MauAww
004) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Ym6y0Aww
005) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YmPWoAww
006) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YmfuoAww
007) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Ywpe2Aww
008) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y2KevAww
009) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YmoS3Aww
010) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YwuytAww
011) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y4cquAww
012) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YsvK3Aww
013) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y2tPGAww
014) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YutPCAww
015) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YhavAAww
016) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yr7vOAww
017) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YqsjYAww
018) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YuNDYAww
019) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y9_fYAww
020) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y3fvdAww
021) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yj5jcAww
022) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YlKHZAww
023) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YzcvcAww
024) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YzqDWAww
025) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y7JLYAww
026) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y-ePaAww
027) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y8MLbAww
028) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y9uPaAww
029) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yyu7dAww
030) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y6s7XAww
031) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y3vLXAww
032) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YmeXiAww
033) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y9bjkAww
034) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y193iAww
035) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y75jnAww
036) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yr43oAww
L01) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YuL3oAww
037) (Y) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yv6HkAww
L02) (N) outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y98vjAww