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+--- Thread: Fighting the Bombshell matchup (/showthread.php?tid=850)
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - Emuchu - 11-07-2012 01:47 PM
(11-07-2012 01:20 PM)garcia1000 Wrote: You can think of the Bombshell as like a timer. You get X amount of turns to win before the Bombshell clock ticks over and you are doomed. You can increase X by putting pressure on the Scallywags player. On large maps the timer is twice as long. That's how to think about it.
This is true. Many posts here complain how a Scallywags player is guaranteed a win against the other team once they have a Bombshell safely hiding behind a two-soldier-deep wall, or worse, once they have an army of Bombshells. And this is most probably true on small maps, but unless you're also playing Scallies and building a Bombshell wall of your own, there's absolutely no reason to sit around long enough to let such a structure be built in the first place.
One one hand, FTA plays a part, here: A Player 1 Scallywags can just turtle and defend, trying to build a Bombshell wall, and Player 2 is forced to attack at a Wit disadvantage (this is being patched in a week, though), so it's easy to blame losses on Scallies being broken, but on the other hand, with 150+ matches under my belt in Masters, I've never actually seen a match drag on long enough to see any of this stuff. If a Scallywags player is really building double-entrenched walls of Bombshells, and there's nothing you can do about it, then the match was decided a long time ago, and they're just being a jerk about it (that, or they genuinely don't realize they've already won).
(11-06-2012 06:04 PM)CombatEX Wrote: I appreciate the direction you have taken with this thread. It is far more constructive to attempt to overcome a weakness instead of simply trying to get that weakness artificially removed without putting in any significant prior effort. +rep
Well, despite the grumblings, there isn't really any concrete evidence that the Bombshells are overpowered. They don't dominate the Top 200 or anything like that. I think the issue is more the way they go about winning: when it comes to Mobi and Scrambler, they sort of pop out, do their business, and the game is decided quickly.
On the other hand, a Bombshell just sort of... sits there, festering in the mind if his opponent, because they wish so strongly to tackle the guy head-on. And it's not like Bombshell can just jump up and win, either, since they're so expensive to move around. So they just sit there. It's more psychological warfare than anything.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - garcia1000 - 11-07-2012 03:23 PM
(11-07-2012 01:47 PM)Emuchu Wrote: If a Scallywags player is really building double-entrenched walls of Bombshells, and there's nothing you can do about it, then the match was decided a long time ago, and they're just being a jerk about it (that, or they genuinely don't realize they've already won).
Hehe. Well, there is technique involved in minimizing your loss to a surprise counterattack, and it involves very cautious bombshell advance hex by hex. So it might seem to the other guy that I am being a jerk but actualie I am just playing to minimize counterplay. In Winning Chess Strategies this is the strategy advocated by Grandmaster Yasser Seirawan for when you are ahead. So I am just doing what a chess Grandmaster recommends.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - Emuchu - 11-07-2012 06:18 PM
(11-07-2012 03:23 PM)garcia1000 Wrote: Hehe. Well, there is technique involved in minimizing your loss to a surprise counterattack, and it involves very cautious bombshell advance hex by hex. So it might seem to the other guy that I am being a jerk but actualie I am just playing to minimize counterplay. In Winning Chess Strategies this is the strategy advocated by Grandmaster Yasser Seirawan for when you are ahead. So I am just doing what a chess Grandmaster recommends.
True, true, haste doesn't win anything in Outwitters. I didn't mean to accuse players of jerkishness as blatantly as my post ended up reading! (;^_^)
I meant it more to heckle players who complain that they can't win because their opponent is already winning... they just haven't realized it, yet.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - Necrocat219 - 11-07-2012 07:34 PM
I love applying chess logic to outwitters
When your ahead press your advantage and when you're behind increase the chances of your opponent making a mistake (well, thats easier here than in chess thanks to the fog)
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - AJaW96 - 11-08-2012 09:10 AM
As a Feedback player, I find the best way to counter a Bombshell strategy is to consistently pressure the opponent with a scrambler. My favourite tactic is to assault the opponents wit space and take it, then leave a scrambler just in range of it. My opponents usually avoid taking it back as the scrambler can immediately brainwash their unit. I will post a replay as an example, I have a game in progress right now.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - Emuchu - 11-08-2012 03:52 PM
(11-08-2012 09:10 AM)AJaW96 Wrote: As a Feedback player, I find the best way to counter a Bombshell strategy is to consistently pressure the opponent with a scrambler. My favourite tactic is to assault the opponents wit space and take it, then leave a scrambler just in range of it. My opponents usually avoid taking it back as the scrambler can immediately brainwash their unit. I will post a replay as an example, I have a game in progress right now.
So I take it you're maneuvering around the Bombshell, rather than tackling the thing directly?
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - AJaW96 - 11-08-2012 10:04 PM
(11-08-2012 03:52 PM)Emuchu Wrote:(11-08-2012 09:10 AM)AJaW96 Wrote: As a Feedback player, I find the best way to counter a Bombshell strategy is to consistently pressure the opponent with a scrambler. My favourite tactic is to assault the opponents wit space and take it, then leave a scrambler just in range of it. My opponents usually avoid taking it back as the scrambler can immediately brainwash their unit. I will post a replay as an example, I have a game in progress right now.
So I take it you're maneuvering around the Bombshell, rather than tackling the thing directly?
Spot on, though the term "quick and the dead" applies 100%. You need to be controlling the space with a scrambler before the bombshell comes into the equation. In other words, be aggressive! A bombshell cannot attack the same turn it moves, so if you control the space then the opponent cannot advance into it without giving up the bombshell.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - AJaW96 - 11-11-2012 07:24 PM
Hi all, I finally finished that match, see link below.
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YwcbrAQw
Please note however that this game does not have Bombshells. Also note that I lose this match. However, it illustrates perfectly the concept of controlling space with the Scrambler.
Enjoy!
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - Emuchu - 11-12-2012 12:27 PM
(11-11-2012 07:24 PM)AJaW96 Wrote: Hi all, I finally finished that match, see link below.
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YwcbrAQw
Please note however that this game does not have Bombshells. Also note that I lose this match. However, it illustrates perfectly the concept of controlling space with the Scrambler.
Enjoy!
That's a pretty interesting way to play Feedback! You probably could have pulled it off if you weren't as aggressive.
RE: Fighting the Bombshell matchup - AJaW96 - 11-14-2012 11:52 AM
I made a big mistake with the runners, I was supposed to put the two health runner on his spawn space to tie it up for longer. It all went downhill from there. But I really enjoyed the match, will try and employ this strategy on other levels.