Outwitters WORLD CUP Winner - Alvendor (SWEDEN)

[joelduque]

(10-15-2012 07:48 PM)garcia1000 Wrote:  

(10-15-2012 05:25 PM)Samura| Wrote:  P1 p1noyboypj
P2 samura|
samura|
20 turns (p1noy resigned)
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Ytv-9AQw

Similar start to the game as for my P1 game, with p1noy taking out my medic and runners early. I got a bombshell out in turn 12, then launched a small scouting attack the next turn to take out his runner at the same time. Stealth was the key to this game, allowing me to take out his sniper and scrambler (and his second scrambler had I been allowed to play out my next turn). Would have liked to play out this game but p1noy resigned after taking turn 19, to free up space in his queue. Being in a position to take out his scrambler, heavy and a soldier on my next turn, I feel I had gained a strong unit and wit advantage but closing out the game would still have been a challenge.

How did you know his scrambler would be there? It was never in scouting range of anything

Turn 14, runner kills runner

[Samura|]

bump for forum bug

[garcia1000]

Ah yes I see it now, well played

[Thrutchy]

(10-15-2012 05:53 PM)awpertunity Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  Here are the reason I like the Swiss format:
* gives a reasonable ranking for all players involved rather than just one winner that single elimination gives

Yes, everybody would get a "rank" in the tournament in the end, but I'm pretty sure the ones near the middle aren't very accurate of where they actually stand skill-wise.

Correct. The closer a rank is to the highest or lowest, the more accurate. But, each additional round should improve the accuracy of all ranks.

(10-15-2012 05:53 PM)awpertunity Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  * similarly skilled players play each other in each round. Using ranking/points/wins from leagues can be used for initial ordering. Compare this with single elimination where the seeded best plays the seeded worst in the first round.
* about the same number of rounds as single elimination (but a lot more overall games)

The problem with this is that the tournament will take significantly longer to finish. And the fact that there is no climactic game makes it feel more like a league rather than a tournament. For example it is very possible for the winner of the "tournament" to be decided before all rounds have even been played.

It will take a lot longer because in each round, we must wait for all other matches to be finished before pairings for the next round can be announced.

I think the Group Play we did here was a nice balance, it guaranteed everyone a least 6 games, all in one "round" since all 6 games were played simultaneously.

I like the fact that in group play, all players stayed in for at least 6 games (3 matches). But, this is also equivalent to the amount of games for 3 rounds in a Swiss tournament (but, they'd be serialized). For 32 players, you only need 5 rounds. It probably would be longer overall since you have to wait on all players in each round, but probably not that much longer.

I think a Swiss tournament also offers the possibility of not making each matchup be composed of 2 games, which would cut down the time needed per round. One possibility might be the currently lower ranked player in each matchup gets P1. Or have each player alternate from round to round as it is done is chess tournaments (also Swiss).

(10-15-2012 05:53 PM)awpertunity Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  * tie breakers (which affects game-play) can be avoided

How's that?

You clearly don't need any for the initial rounds (which I think is more problematic). If the top players don't have a point differential, then you'd just have them play more games - either full rounds or just between top players.

The tournament you chose was round-robin with groups of 4 (keeping 1st and 2nd for each group) followed by single elimination. Here might be other interesting hybrids:
* round-robin -> like-rank round-robin -> ...
* swiss -> single elimination (top 4)
* swiss -> round-robin (top 4)
* swiss -> more swiss rounds

This stuff is reminding me of sort networks.

[Eijolend]

(10-16-2012 01:08 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  I like the fact that in group play, all players stayed in for at least 6 games (3 matches). But, this is also equivalent to the amount of games for 3 rounds in a Swiss tournament (but, they'd be serialized). For 32 players, you only need 5 rounds. It probably would be longer overall since you have to wait on all players in each round, but probably not that much longer.

Assuming we still wanted to do that 2 games=1 match system, you'll probably need more than 5 rounds, because the n rounds for 2^n players only works if there are no or few ties. I'd expect a high number of ties in high level play.

[Thrutchy]

(10-16-2012 07:58 AM)Eijolend Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 01:08 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  I like the fact that in group play, all players stayed in for at least 6 games (3 matches). But, this is also equivalent to the amount of games for 3 rounds in a Swiss tournament (but, they'd be serialized). For 32 players, you only need 5 rounds. It probably would be longer overall since you have to wait on all players in each round, but probably not that much longer.

Assuming we still wanted to do that 2 games=1 match system, you'll probably need more than 5 rounds, because the n rounds for 2^n players only works if there are no or few ties. I'd expect a high number of ties in high level play.

Very true. I'm very curious to see how it works out in the tournament you organized. There will probably be a bigger spread among the top-skilled players though.

Swiss tournament works well for chess, so I'm assuming it will for outwitters as well.

[awpertunity]

(10-15-2012 06:54 PM)blckace Wrote:  Can i start my game with samurai already?

Haha, maybe wait until a few more matches have been reported first.. I don't think it would be an issue, but I wouldn't want the new update to get applied after you finish when others haven't started the Quarterfinals yet.

Even if you're anxious to play and get those games done in a hurry, you'd just have to wait longer for the next match!

[CombatEX]

Yea I would suggest just waiting for the round to be over. Especially since RO16 is on Peekaboo... who knows how long some of the remaining games will take? =P

[Thrutchy]

For the remaining game between blueswimmer95 and me, I just sent turn 49. Even if I win, the tie breaker will give blueswimmer the match. You can mark this outcome, but I'll still fight to the death.

[garcia1000]

peekaboo games can take 200+ turns as I well know from personal experience