Bombshell Turtling - Balancing Suggestion

garcia1000 · 10-07-2012, 11:06 AM

That would be a massive bombshell nerf. However, it would also reduce the "cheaty" way to look into fog of war with bombshell. I think it would need testing but it sounds possible

blckace · 10-07-2012, 11:19 AM

(10-07-2012 11:06 AM)garcia1000 Wrote: That would be a massive bombshell nerf. However, it would also reduce the "cheaty" way to look into fog of war with bombshell. I think it would need testing but it sounds possible

It sounds like a really good idea! Maybe, only if they have another unit that can see further than three tiles they can attack an empty tile for splash damage like a soldier infront of the bombshell

GoHeat 3 · 10-07-2012, 11:23 AM

(10-07-2012 11:19 AM)blckace Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:06 AM)garcia1000 Wrote: That would be a massive bombshell nerf. However, it would also reduce the "cheaty" way to look into fog of war with bombshell. I think it would need testing but it sounds possible

It sounds like a really good idea! Maybe, only if they have another unit that can see further than three tiles they can attack an empty tile for splash damage like a soldier infront of the bombshell

Yeah, I think that would be the best solution!

Butternut22 · 10-07-2012, 11:29 AM

(10-07-2012 11:23 AM)GoHeat 3 Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:19 AM)blckace Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:06 AM)garcia1000 Wrote: That would be a massive bombshell nerf. However, it would also reduce the "cheaty" way to look into fog of war with bombshell. I think it would need testing but it sounds possible

It sounds like a really good idea! Maybe, only if they have another unit that can see further than three tiles they can attack an empty tile for splash damage like a soldier infront of the bombshell

Yeah, I think that would be the best solution!

But the thing is bombshells are usually guarded be soldiers anyway so...

GoHeat 3 · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2012 12:02 PM by GoHeat 3.)

(10-07-2012 11:29 AM)Butternut22 Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:23 AM)GoHeat 3 Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:19 AM)blckace Wrote:
(10-07-2012 11:06 AM)garcia1000 Wrote: That would be a massive bombshell nerf. However, it would also reduce the "cheaty" way to look into fog of war with bombshell. I think it would need testing but it sounds possible

It sounds like a really good idea! Maybe, only if they have another unit that can see further than three tiles they can attack an empty tile for splash damage like a soldier infront of the bombshell

Yeah, I think that would be the best solution!
But the thing is bombshells are usually guarded be soldiers anyway so...

Oh... Good Point:O

Da Wizerd · 10-07-2012, 12:01 PM

(10-07-2012 10:36 AM)Butternut22 Wrote: I think what should happen is that a bombshell can only attack if it directly hits a target. This way, it cannot fire at a hex with no unit on it three hexes away and do splash damage right behind it. The only way it would be able to attack is to directly hit a unit. Would this work maybe?

I think that would be worth exploring

pookywb · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2012 01:09 PM by pookywb.)

(10-07-2012 10:15 AM)garcia1000 Wrote: How about "Only one special unit at a time"?

I haven't had problems with breaking single bombshell. 2 bombshell is impossible though.

But... but... multiple Mobis are fun! o.o,

vivafringe · 10-07-2012, 03:21 PM

Bombshells play great (as a defensive player I find them super fun), and bombshell vs. bombshell fights are easily the deepest, most fun thing about the game for me. So I would much rather buff the other races than mess around with bombshell itself.

(10-07-2012 10:36 AM)Butternut22 Wrote: I think what should happen is that a bombshell can only attack if it directly hits a target. This way, it cannot fire at a hex with no unit on it three hexes away and do splash damage right behind it. The only way it would be able to attack is to directly hit a unit. Would this work maybe?

This is a monster nerf and would make the race really bad.

Promicide · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2012 04:29 PM by Promicide.)

Love the one special at a time thing. Didn't consider the added advantage of bombshells being able to discover/attack/destroy enemies concealed by the DAHKNASS. Not trying to complain, as I don't have a suggestion just yet to fix it without throwing game mechanics outta wack.

Good thing that's not my job Wink

. Killing people is.

CombatEX · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2012 07:19 PM by CombatEX.)

I agree with vivafringe. I really like the way the bombshell currently works and it makes SvS an interesting matchup in its current state. If the bombshell really is 'too good' as it is, then I'd rather have the other specials buff. Ultimately though, why isn't anyone commenting on map balancing?

Why comment on all these arbitrary fixes when we don't even have the stats to backup the idea that the bombshell is 'OP' overall? As Syvan pointed out, different specials will be better than others on a map by map basis. Balancing the maps would be a much better approach than trying to adjust stats on the specials. Why? Because changing the bombshell stats will make it worse on all maps. This may make it more even on certain maps, but it could also make it subpar on others. Rather than adjusting the stats, just adjust the map pool.

Balance maps based on match-up statistics instead of arbitrary unit nerfs hoping to solve some unverified problem.

(10-07-2012 08:54 AM)Ravernoth Wrote: Adorables and Feedback, if they do hold an advantage on large maps, don't hold it to the same degree.

Speculation. Where are your stats? You don't have any. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but really, I just don't like the idea of claiming things are too good or too bad without stats. Probably this is a result of my experience with SC2. There is so much whining about Terran OP, Protoss OP, Zerg OP, etc. But when it comes down to it, the stats show the game is very nearly balanced (sc2statistics). Sometimes the meta will shift towards a certain team for a while, but then the slightly disadvantaged race will figure out how to counter it.

So, what do we need before balance changes?

1. STATS. Speculation without anything concrete to back it up is what ruins battle.net forums, youtube comments on sc2 videos, sc2 stream chats, ingame chat, etc. Pretty much half of the discussion involving SC2. Whine whine whine with nothing to back it up.
2. TIME. Even if the stats favor one race (or team in Outwitters), give players of the disadvantaged race some time to develop a proper counter. If, after a sufficient amount of time has passed, no counter is devised, then we can discuss how to fix the issue.

But stats first, then some period of time if stats confirm there is indeed an issue.