The most important thing in the new update...for you?

**TheQwertiest** · 09-26-2012, 05:18 AM

(09-26-2012 05:16 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: A map that has a few wit spaces you have to fight over a middle or a few middle wit spaces would be awesome and tense.

that would be cool but i think this will create another FTA issue

CombatEX · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2012 05:36 AM by CombatEX.)

(09-26-2012 05:18 AM)TheQwertiest Wrote:
(09-26-2012 05:16 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: A map that has a few wit spaces you have to fight over a middle or a few middle wit spaces would be awesome and tense.

that would be cool but i think this will create another FTA issue

Yea, then we would be seeing situations like this. Here the 'wit spaces' (cities) are in the center rather than for a specific player. You can see that FTA in the case of neutral central wit spaces would be a big advantage for the first player. The 3 wits for P1 or 8 wits for P2 fixes wouldn't address P1's ability to move first and capture neutral spaces as in this Advance Wars example.

The fix specified in the case of Advance Wars also isn't applicable to Outwitters for a couple reasons.

1. There are already predeployed units in Outwitters, so giving P2 another predeployed unit doesn't help in the same way. Potentially you could make it so that P2 has a predeployed unit in range of a neutral wit space while P1 doesn't have any in range on the first turn, but this is beginning to become convoluted. There is another problem with this addressed below.
2. There is no fog of war in (this version of) Advance Wars. Giving P2 an extra unit in Outwitters to capture a neutral wit space earlier would also have the unintended side effect of giving P2 more map vision.

**TheQwertiest** · 09-26-2012, 05:38 AM

what if the middle wit spot can be stolen while a unit is on it? like if your runner is on the wit spot i can jump my runner on the same spot youre standing on knocking you back 1 space randomly. please dont hate me for giving a stupid idea, this just popped out of my head, didnt really give this much thought

CombatEX · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2012 05:55 AM by CombatEX.)

I don't like the idea of adding randomness to Outwitters. If a knockback mechanic were ever added (maybe on a special unit?), it would have to be predictable, like directly back from the direction the unit who 'knocked it' was coming from. In the case of a neutral wit space allowing units to be knocked off, there are a few issues.

1. It invents a different type of wit space and with it an unnecessary layer of complexity that doesn't significantly benefit strategic depth.
2. It would be way too difficult to hold that wit space if a player can simply push another unit off (especially since it is in an easily accessible central part of the map). I imagine it would come down to each side throwing sacrificial runners at the space to prevent anyone from controlling it.

Necrocat219 · 09-26-2012, 06:03 AM

I didn't want to bring FTA up because I'm sure everyone is fed up with the topic, but a map likewouldnt be too bad even with FTA. You don't benefit from a wit space until after you've held it for a turn so it would be as much of an advantage as on other maps

vivafringe · (This post was last modified: 09-26-2012 06:08 AM by vivafringe.)

From highest to lowest:

1. Fix FTA queue stacking
2. Reduce FTA advantage
3. New Race wooooo!
4. Optional Replay Database for games I've played that I can buy for ~3$. Further statistics like win %, win% on certain maps, etc., would also be appreciated.

Not listed: Race balance tweaks. With FTA changes and new race, it's sort of pointless to even try balance tweaks at this point. But it deserves to be done "some day."

**TheQwertiest** · 09-26-2012, 06:06 AM

(09-26-2012 05:54 AM)CombatEX Wrote: 2. It would be way too difficult to hold that wit space if a player can simply push another unit off (especially since it is in an easily accessible central part of the map). I imagine it would come down to each side throwing sacrificial runners at the space to prevent anyone from controlling it.

this would be the cool part. haha

KMan 29 · 09-26-2012, 06:17 AM

What if P2 got to start with their wit spaces lit/collected? Would that two-wit swing alleviate the FTA?

*Side question* Don't you receive more league points for winning as P2?

Limpi · 09-26-2012, 06:24 AM

I would like to see the game list refresh bug fixed!
After each refresh, I get many wonned/lost games on the top of my game list.
Games that I already checked and marked with the button!
They appear at the top again!!! Sad

(

CombatEX · 09-26-2012, 06:44 AM

(09-26-2012 06:06 AM)TheQwertiest Wrote:
(09-26-2012 05:54 AM)CombatEX Wrote: 2. It would be way too difficult to hold that wit space if a player can simply push another unit off (especially since it is in an easily accessible central part of the map).

this would be the cool part. haha

Yes, THAT would be the cool part, but this would not... =(

Quote:I imagine it would come down to each side throwing sacrificial runners at the space to prevent anyone from controlling it.

Inherently forward wit spaces will be harder to hold than ones near your spawn points. I'm all for difficult to hold spaces, but the thing is, I imagine the "pushing off" mechanic wouldn't simply make it too hard. The problem is it is too easy to take the space back just by throwing a unit on the space if you can just push units off. Then, as you don't want your opponent to hold an extra wit space, you'll feel obligated to recapture it by throwing another unit on the space (probably a runner) and vice versa. This essentially will just be a wit sink and will effectively limit tactical possibilities rather than expand them.

Don't misunderstand me, experimenting with 'more neutral' wit spaces would certainly be interesting, I just don't think it's practical now when we still haven't fixed FTA for the simpler case.