The Elite Championship - Season 1 [winner: Pharmafan!]

Alan Klaus · 10-19-2013, 10:39 AM

The difference between "passing the 4 days timeout" and "showing 4 days ago in the game" are significant in clarity. Even "taking longer than 4 days" is slightly interpretive whereas "taking longer than 96 hours" would be more clear. Defining by the screenshot is crystal clear - and placing that statement on the front page makes it present with the other rules. Regardless, I'm not saying I'm "right" but it's frustrating that an important match came down to my interpretation of that from weeks ago, especially when I was active in this tourny yesterday in other games. Today I've already played 11 turns and I have more time still tonight through the weekend, which I planned on when balancing my schedule with the above interpretation of the rules.

His_Daddy · 10-19-2013, 10:43 AM

I understand how Alan feel, when you still had chance to get champion but suddenly it flew away haha.
Since it's just S1, I'm sure rules will be more clear and recognized in the future.
Btw Magic, have you decided what to do with a tie? I understand the way challonge did it is considering the game between the two. But what if there are three or more while A>B>C>A
(ps: how to say such tie in English?)

[PETA] Doodat · 10-19-2013, 11:18 AM

3way tie

His_Daddy · 10-19-2013, 11:22 AM

Thank you!

Mag!cGuy · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2013 02:27 PM by Mag!cGuy.)

I am sorry alan, but as you see it comes more from your understanding than really the clarity of the rules since everyone else seems to understand it the way I wanted the rule to be understood ^^ As his daddy said, season 2 is coming soon, and I will make sure the rule is as clear as possible. Smile

If a 3way (or any kind of) tie happens, each player in the tie will meet again the others once. They will have to veto 3 maps, and the map that they already have played on against the same player will be directly "kicked" of the list. So there will be 4 maps remaining, and I will choose randomly one map among those four. Hope it is clear enough Tongue

[PETA] Doodat · 10-19-2013, 02:26 PM

May I suggest:

"Once the words '4 days ago' appears on your game against an opponent, the game is an automatic forfeit for the one who let the game run to that time period. The words '4 days ago' will appear once the 4th day has ended and the 5th day of a turn has begun."

Pharmafan · 10-19-2013, 04:48 PM

I feel like I should add something to the time-out-debate.....and hope that it may come to an end soon and that we can come back to play the game instead of talking about wordings and clarity.....:

Alan, I share your feelings. It`s a mess when you discover that you`ve made an error and it`s even more frustrating when you make a mistake that`s not in-game but by violating tournament rules. But no one has made a mistake here, except yourself so I can`t understand why you just kick others for what happened.

Mag!c did a great job in organizing this tournament and I`m really grateful btw that you launched this, Mag!c! Absolute great job! Thx!

Mag!c stated the timeout-rule in the OP. From my point of view it was 99.9% clear what is meant BUT due to importance for myself I asked him in this thread (on the bottom of page 5) if X-days-timeout means that you lost when there`s written X days ago and he promptly answered that it is meant like everyone understood.

I absolutely don`t say that you have to find that additional explanation on page 5. You can find it in the OP like it`s written there and how it was sufficient for everyone....BUT I say: if it becomes that important for you and you are not 100% sure.....you can ask Mag!c.

I can`t understand why you passed the 4 days without even asking for it.

Btw a tournament rule that states that you are OK when there is written 4 days ago in the game would have been absolutely senseless cause it can happen to you that the in-game-timeout-system catches you and ends the game.....so I asked that only when Mag!c in the beginning stated that the rule is 3 days....with 4 days there in no unclarity left.

It´s a pity what happened to our game but please stop blaming Mag!c for your own error, Alan. That`s not sportsmanlike IMO.

AND: there will be another season like His_Daddy said.....so come on and let`s meet on the battlefield again! Smile

Alan Klaus · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2013 05:46 PM by Alan Klaus.)

Oh, Pharma, I was hoping you wouldn't bring in the sportsmanship card after claiming victory that way. Personally, I wouldn't want to win by default unless it was taking forever and even then it'd be shallow. I'm not expecting to win out against my tough remaining competition but someone else might've been first overall if you lost that game.

Now, I haven't asked for a replay but instead expressed frustration and gave a suggestion for clarity. You see, you're right, it does list the timeout rule on the front page. But now that you point it out, it jogged my memory of looking at that and thinking the decision was once "THE four day timeout" was gone ("passed") not present or reached. To me, "the four day timeout" is an object which meant showing "four days ago"... so passing that would mean showing "five days ago." A wording of "after four days of inactivity" is clear because it uses time rather than an object. Even "after four days timeout" could work. Do you understand the difference? For example, what does "after the fourth month from now" mean to you? Some might say Feb. 19 and others might say March 1. I'd argue March 1 is correct by the definition. However, "after four months from now" would be Feb. 19.

Regardless, I wasn't attacking Magic. He also hasn't accepted that his statement was confusing in the slightest, which is why I've kept explaining myself.

Enjoy your victory.

Mag!cGuy · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2013 06:27 PM by Mag!cGuy.)

(10-19-2013 08:20 AM)Pharmafan Wrote:
(10-19-2013 08:19 AM)His_Daddy Wrote: Ok so let's welcome the champion of s1: pharmafan!

not yet.....

outwitters://viewgame?id=ahRzfm91dHdpdHRlcnNnYW1lLWhyZHIVCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YgICAgMHKqgsM

GG His_Daddy!

Trumpet or LER4T can still end tied with me....

Damnit, well done! I won't let you have so many wins in season 2, trust me Tongue

Doodat: thanks for the suggestion, I will put this sentence in the rules instead.

Pharmafan · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2013 08:42 PM by Pharmafan.)

(10-19-2013 06:18 PM)Mag!cGuy Wrote:
(10-19-2013 08:20 AM)Pharmafan Wrote:
(10-19-2013 08:19 AM)His_Daddy Wrote: Ok so let's welcome the champion of s1: pharmafan!

not yet.....

outwitters://viewgame?id=ahRzfm91dHdpdHRlcnNnYW1lLWhyZHIVCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YgICAgMHKqgsM

GG His_Daddy!

Trumpet or LER4T can still end tied with me....

Damnit, well done! I won't let you have so many wins in season 2, trust me

Doodat: thanks for the suggestion, I will put this sentence in the rules instead.

Thanks, Mag!c! Looking forward to play you in S2! Smile

Alan, I can follow your explanations regarding possible interpretations of time data. Absolutely! I get your point but I remain with the question why you took the risk of passing this timeline in such an important game cause everybody knows that the in-game-system can kick the game after passing the line. You said that you even spend a bit of time with outwitters preparing for the game against LER4T and inviting him. Why haven`t you just made a turn against me?

Regarding sportsmanship I was talking about another meaning than you do: I talked about blaming the referee after self-misinterpretation of a rule.

You talk about sportsmanship between players regarding my own action taking the win now. I clearly stated that I absolutely don`t like winning that way. All my other wins were much more fun of course. Sportsmanship is very important for me and I see myself as a very fair player. So I would like to explain my point of view here:

Time is a part of the rules and games like this one. It`s also a part of chess for example. I never liked winning a chess game when my opponent timed out. But if he did I went with the rules and of course took the win. It`s the same for me in this case. I don`t feel like acting unfair or stealing a win. I also never felt uncomfortable within our duel. I`m good positioned, took your sniper and there would be huge efforts for you when I start attacking on the left. Your post sounded as I would have lost otherwise and thats absolutely not the case. If I had been with the back at the wall and crashed anyways and then win through timeout I would feel different. But here we had a game where I was good positioned, or do you see that different?

I went quite lucky through this tournament so far and had some really good moves and games and I don`t feel that it should all end with a discussion about interpretations of tournament rules and that you link my success to those....

All what I wrote is not meant offensive, Alan, and I really absolutely respect you as a very, very powerful player. Shake hands or do you disagree?