Advanced tactics

GreatGonzales · 08-22-2012, 01:17 AM

This one is pretty basic but I thought I'd throw it out there (Alvendor if this thread takes off maybe you should update the original post with a list?)

* If you have planned out your move ahead of time (another tip...plan out your move ahead of time), and you know which enemy units you are definitely going to kill, the order with which you do so matters. This typically comes into play with runners. The idea is you want to limit the amount of vision that your opponent has of your activities as much as possible. So, if there is a runner in your territory that you know you are going to kill during your turn, kill the runner with your very first wit. Similarly, you should keep in mind moving units that are creating a vision wall while there is an enemy unit nearby that will see beyond the vision wall when you move the unit. Sometimes this is unavoidable, but if you can avoid letting your opponent see what's beyond the wall (a secret sniper, perhaps), it's a good thing to keep in mind.

tl;dr summary: limit your opponent's vision of your activities as much as possible.

jaesonwu · (This post was last modified: 08-22-2012 04:15 AM by jaesonwu.)

I follow up on what swimj said, especially on small maps like Sharkfood island you can often recreate a game exactly through good scouting to know exactly how many wits your opponent has and what moves they did. I had a few 20+ turn games with swimj where I could recreate every move he did in a passnplay even with fog. I couldn't update the passnplay every turn, but I never went more than 3 turns without being able to update the passnplay game to the same state as the ongoing one through inferring what swimj must have done by using proper scouting info.

GreatGonzales · 08-22-2012, 05:47 AM

You know, I actually didn't realize what that icon was (the icon that appears when your opponent has activity within the fog of war) until just now. Very helpful...good tip!

awpertunity · 08-22-2012, 07:30 AM

I'd like to add the exact opposite to what GreatGonzales has said too:

Often on defense, you don't know what's behind an enemy wall (or even sneaking by the side as in foundry). So as GG said, first plan your move out, but then you need to plan your order of moves out. That said, it may very well be the case that you need to REPLAN your move after you kill a unit and gain some additional information. So you have to plan your move order so that you can still account for "surprises" that may be lurking in the shadows. This is very situational so I'll give the 2 most common examples I tend to encounter:

1. (Foundry) If your base is getting pressured, it is often likely that the opponent is simultaneously trying to sneak his soldier around the back. It is very tempting to simply kill an enemy soldier (on your wit space for instance) with your heavy that you have there, but WAIT! Your heavy cannot see the backside, and if there is a soldier down there you've lost your only chance to kill it. If possible, kill it with a soldier/runner combo or something, basically some way that you can gain vision of the backdoor while still being able to complete your move as planned had there been no surprise.

2. (Glitch) It is very common here to have a little standoff across the 1-hex bridge in the middle. Since the vision behind is blocked off by units, it is often possible that your opponent has snuck a sniper back there that you cannot see. So now comes the exact opposite of before. Perhaps you can kill a soldier with a soldier/runner combo or a soldier/soldier combo. In general, you would want to use the soldier/runner to not waste additional attacking power; however, the remaining soldier would not be able to reach a sniper behind the wall if it is there! It may actually be more useful to kill the soldier with your soldiers, in case there is a sniper tucked away.

tl;dr summary: plan your move out, and plan the order of moves out, WHILE accounting for the fact that surprises may be in the shadows and you may need to replan your move mid-turn.

Eijolend · 08-22-2012, 11:19 AM

(08-22-2012 04:13 AM)jaesonwu Wrote: I follow up on what swimj said, especially on small maps like Sharkfood island you can often recreate a game exactly through good scouting to know exactly how many wits your opponent has and what moves they did. I had a few 20+ turn games with swimj where I could recreate every move he did in a passnplay even with fog. I couldn't update the passnplay every turn, but I never went more than 3 turns without being able to update the passnplay game to the same state as the ongoing one through inferring what swimj must have done by using proper scouting info.

*mind blown*
Wow, creating a identical pass'n'play game to simulate what your opponent can do is actually a neat idea!

GreatGonzales · 08-22-2012, 11:28 AM

(08-22-2012 07:30 AM)awpertunity Wrote: tl;dr summary: plan your move out, and plan the order of moves out, WHILE accounting for the fact that surprises may be in the shadows and you may need to replan your move mid-turn.

I dunno if that's the exact opposite of what I said... Wink

Anyway, agree with this.

awpertunity · 08-22-2012, 02:07 PM

(08-22-2012 11:28 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:
(08-22-2012 07:30 AM)awpertunity Wrote: tl;dr summary: plan your move out, and plan the order of moves out, WHILE accounting for the fact that surprises may be in the shadows and you may need to replan your move mid-turn.

I dunno if that's the exact opposite of what I said... Anyway, agree with this.

Hahaha you're right I don't know what I was thinking. I guess the exact opposite of what you said would just be to make random, sporadic moves, making sure to show your opponent as much as possible Tongue

nivra0 · 08-22-2012, 06:14 PM

This should really be in basic training, but when planning your attack, plan out your opponent's counterattack, and then re-assess.... Maybe even planning out your counter-counter....

Especially on long, 10-15 wit complex attacks, this reveals a lot of info.

Alvendor · 08-23-2012, 07:39 AM

(08-22-2012 01:17 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: (Alvendor if this thread takes off maybe you should update the original post with a list?)

Good idea, I'll create a summary of the thread in the first post

nivra0 · 08-23-2012, 08:55 AM

(08-22-2012 11:28 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:
(08-22-2012 07:30 AM)awpertunity Wrote: tl;dr summary: plan your move out, and plan the order of moves out, WHILE accounting for the fact that surprises may be in the shadows and you may need to replan your move mid-turn.

I dunno if that's the exact opposite of what I said... Anyway, agree with this.

A good corollary of this is, if you're moving multiple units out to attack something, move the runner first to gain the most vision, as it may reveal things in the fog that change your plan.

Also, aborting an attack and losing the runner is not a big wit cost. Moving a heavy first, and losing the heavy to a hidden sniper is a much bigger cost.