So whats the deal with Divisions...

[TheGoldenGriffin]

(07-16-2013 05:08 PM)ChiCoChi Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 06:25 AM)lawtai Wrote:  Yea, that's where the hidden rank comes in. There are 2 ranking systems. The hidden ranks which is what is used for matchmaking, and the points system that you see in your profile.

We have no clue what the formula is for the hidden rank, but that is the important ranking system as that determines your level between gifted/master/super-titan.

The point system is merely a "fun" ranking that rewards you for playing more, hence getting more points for a win than for a loss.

i always lose more points per loss than gain per win on average!

6 - 12 for win, 12 - 16 for a loss

this is the general trend anyways

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if the points system is merely for fun, wouldnt it be more fun to see the true ranking? Arbitrary points, groups, offer little "fun" once you realise they are not the true rating... ( for me at least.)

Its kind of disappointing now i find i cannot see something simple as true ranking and win loss ratio etc, like they do with other online strategy games. We should be able to pay extra to see this, or even better it should have been standard.

If you are in the top of your division you will tend to lose more points to make it harder to keep the top spots.

The points system is used for ranking in the leaderboards and takes into account the players rank and tier. The pairing system takes into account the players win:loss, rank, and tier.

If by true ranking you mean your rank against everybody else, the difference between rank 7999 and 8000 would be pretty much nothing, and it doesnt show the distribution of skill. So there are skill groups to divide that up, called tiers. Fluffy, clever, gifted, master, and super titan. [There was this big argument before that the player skill distribution was bad since 80% of the players were clever and below. But it just means that 80% of players were only good enough to make it to fluffy and clever. But it got smaller after Season 3 started.] the problem is that there are a lot of players and each tier has a lot of players (except ST) so the solution was to make divisions containing 100 or so players so you could get an easy idea of where in the tier you are. But now the problem is that players who play the most often gets more points over time so they will get higher up the leaderboards.

[Mag!cGuy]

(07-16-2013 05:28 PM)terenceshiu2005 Wrote:  I really want to see the true (hidden) ranking of outwitters.

Yeah, and see poweewee has 2000 skill points whereas we have 1000

[ChiCoChi]

i still think an open and transparent ranking and win/loss record is an obvious design choice, even if you charge extra for it...

[[PETA] Cor13:4]

Yeah, a lot of people would like to see the true hidden ranking. I personally agree and other games have shown the true hidden ranking, even if it meant I was 10000 out of 10000, I like seeing that. To me, that makes me feel better when I see I move up.

In the current system, the only way I knew I was improving was when I got promoted or actually got into the top 200. Before that point, although I knew I was winning more than losing, you don't anything to really look at and feel good about if you are doing well.

[CombatEX]

OML figured this system is more encouraging for casual players. Points are primarily based upon activity, not skill, so your ranking is meaningless anyway regardless of whether you are ranked by division or ranked in your entire league. The official OML stance is that it is more encouraging for players with small divisions simply because more people can be highly ranked (even if there isn't any real meaning behind it). It's likewise less discouraging to be rank 53rd out of 100 than 530th out of 1000. Ultimately the division and "activity" point system (rather than a point system based on skill) is to cater to casual players.

That being said, I strongly disagreed with this in the past, and even moreso now. As time goes on there is a smaller fraction of casual players compared to serious players and as a result I feel the majority of us would prefer a skill based point system. I don't mind that players are grouped in 100 player divisions though. As long as points are skill based you'll know whether you are close to promotion based on your division rank without the need for an overall league rank.

OML actually had a better system before but then they changed it. If you have some OML, would you consider returning to a zero sum system and just start people at 1000 points each season to avoid the 0 point problem we had before?

On a closing note though I want to make it clear that the hidden rating seems to work quite well so don't worry about that aspect. Your hidden rating is skill based.

[Mag!cGuy]

The hidden skill rating is exteemely well calculated, the top 200 really correspond to the reality. But I agree the former point system was extremely meaningful, being the first of your division really meant you were to close to being promoted.

[[PETA] Doodat]

So in this week I won against a top 200 and lost to a gifted. The hidden ranking is probably very annoyed at me.

[Mag!cGuy]

That's why i told, you ain't a real master

[[PETA] Doodat]

Pfft. I just play for fun. I only try to think really hard if I wanna. Which is bad. But whatever, it's all just fun anyways

[ElPared]

it sounds like the divisions and points are ultimately meaningless and just there to encourage casual players, and the "real" ranking system is the hidden rating.

If that's the case I don't know what the big deal is. It means the best players are placed where they should be and the worst ones are placed where they should be, as is everyone in between, and on top of it all they get to feel good about themselves for being whatever rank they are in whatever division they're in.

I'd definitely rather be #7 in my Gifted division than #70 in the whole league, for one.