Have you ever played Hero Academy?

[saikyo]

Hero Academy is lame in my opinion. I tried it. Spamming all your moves into 1 unit is pretty cheap.

I think a better game, and a better comparison to Outwitters, is UNIWAR.

[worldfamous]

(08-04-2012 12:42 PM)saikyo Wrote:  Hero Academy is lame in my opinion. I tried it. Spamming all your moves into 1 unit is pretty cheap.

I think a better game, and a better comparison to Outwitters, is UNIWAR.

What does "spamming all your moves into one unit" mean? You must not have played it much. I can't imagine anyone giving it a few plays and not liking it. I didn't even realize how deep the math went until they added the puzzle mode. I had to try the final challenges 20 times before I got the right formula.

[Anyr]

(08-04-2012 12:42 PM)saikyo Wrote:  Hero Academy is lame in my opinion. I tried it. Spamming all your moves into 1 unit is pretty cheap.

I could just as easily claim that Outwitters' limitless supply of units is 'cheap spamming' compared to Hero Academy, which only gives a fixed amount of them per game; But of course, that would be ridiculous. The two games are balanced around completely different assumptions. Hero Academy's metagame depends on units being able to attack multiple times per turn, just as Outwitters relies on them only attacking once. It's absurd to claim that these principles are wrong because they're incompatible with those of a completely different game.

[worldfamous]

One thing HA doesn't have that I love from Outwitters...REPLAYS!!! I'm just a geek like that, but I love me some replays.

[wonderpug]

(08-04-2012 01:34 PM)worldfamous Wrote:  

(08-04-2012 12:42 PM)saikyo Wrote:  Hero Academy is lame in my opinion. I tried it. Spamming all your moves into 1 unit is pretty cheap.

I think a better game, and a better comparison to Outwitters, is UNIWAR.

What does "spamming all your moves into one unit" mean? You must not have played it much. I can't imagine anyone giving it a few plays and not liking it. I didn't even realize how deep the math went until they added the puzzle mode. I had to try the final challenges 20 times before I got the right formula.

Being used to strategy games with mechanics like Advance Wars and the like, the HA ability to move a single unit multiple times really threw me off at first, and seemed imbalanced. As I got better, though, it became clear that it's balanced just fine around the mechanic. It's a defining feature of HA gameplay that sets it apart, not a flaw or an imbalance.

I whole heartily agree, thou, that HA would be 10 times better with skill-based matchmaking and replays like Outwitters has. Hopefully the developers start trying to one up each other with feature improvements so we can benefit from the competition.

[Skaught2727]

Hero Academy just feels too commercialized to me. Too much focus on graphics, not enough on gameplay. Doesn't compare to Outwitters at all in terms of addictiveness IMO.

[Anyr]

(08-06-2012 06:51 PM)Skaught2727 Wrote:  Hero Academy just feels too commercialized to me. Too much focus on graphics, not enough on gameplay. Doesn't compare to Outwitters at all in terms of addictiveness IMO.

What aspects of the gameplay strike you as lacking? As someone who's been playing a lot of both games lately, I'm quite interested in detailed comparisons between the two.

[Cookie]

(08-06-2012 07:34 PM)Anyr Wrote:  What aspects of the gameplay strike you as lacking? As someone who's been playing a lot of both games lately, I'm quite interested in detailed comparisons between the two.

I wouldn't say lacking, but I found the movement mechanics of HA rather frustrating, and the system where units have different strength depending on what type of unit it is facing makes the learning curve for the units a bit steeper. The puzzles give a pretty good idea of how this mechanic works, but to me it still didn't make a lot of sense.

This does not mean that the game is not well designed or that it is not balanced; I consider it more to be a matter of taste.

And, I think the fog-of-war mechanic is a big bonus in Outwitters as well. Without that mechanic, Outwitters would not work, since a lot of advanced strategies rely on hiding snipers or specials, including setting up blocks that make it harder for the opponent to know what you are doing. HA might work anyway, but it requires more time to understand how the units move and attack.

[Anyr]

(08-06-2012 08:21 PM)Cookie Wrote:  I wouldn't say lacking, but I found the movement mechanics of HA rather frustrating, and the system where units have different strength depending on what type of unit it is facing makes the learning curve for the units a bit steeper. The puzzles give a pretty good idea of how this mechanic works, but to me it still didn't make a lot of sense.

Yes, Hero Academy definitely requires more double checking when it comes to calculations. In order to determine whether (for example) their Knight will be able to finish off an enemy Void Monk in one turn, players have to account for HP, resistances, weapon/armour effects, boost squares, temporary buffs, and more besides. This is why the undo feature is so essential to that game: Players need to be able to test out various possibilities without committing to them, because there are so many factors involved in each decision.

Quote:This does not mean that the game is not well designed or that it is not balanced; I consider it more to be a matter of taste.

Ditto.

Quote:And, I think the fog-of-war mechanic is a big bonus in Outwitters as well. Without that mechanic, Outwitters would not work, since a lot of advanced strategies rely on hiding snipers or specials, including setting up blocks that make it harder for the opponent to know what you are doing. HA might work anyway, but it requires more time to understand how the units move and attack.

For Hero Academy, the 'fog of war' comes from its deck system. While you will always know the status of everything your opponent has on the field, the same can't be said for their undeployed resources. The question thus changes from 'Does he have a sniper/soldier/bombshell/etc hiding over there?' to 'Does he have a scroll/healer/fireball/etc in his hand?' Likewise, both games differ in the methods used to counter this uncertainty. In Outwitters, players can send out scouts to let them see into 'dark' areas. In Hero Academy, they can keep track of each other's dwindling decks: "Ok, I know he's already used both his scrolls, so this move is safe."

[Kamikaze28]

(08-06-2012 09:15 PM)Anyr Wrote:  [...] In Hero Academy, they can keep track of each other's dwindling decks: "Ok, I know he's already used both his scrolls, so this move is safe."

Hiding this information is a design decision I find lacking. The information is there and skilled players will keep track of this in their heads or by other means and as you pointed out, knowing what your enemy can and cannot do is quite essential to making the right decisions.
Take for instance Carcassonne (for iOS) - you can always look up what tiles remain in the undrawn stack and calculate your chances of finishing a road or a city. Skilled players know the deck by heart, but attaining this kind of routine takes time and/or effort and distracts from the 'true skill' which is making the right decisions at the right time, not memorizing the deck and counting cards.