Have you ever played Hero Academy?

[aaronINdayton]

Hero academy is a very strange game, very different than any other I've played. It took me probably a month of playing to decide wether or not I liked it, and I did! Outwitters is currently my game of choice, but I always go to HA when I run out of moves.

[onealexleft]

(08-03-2012 11:29 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  Anyway, you get my point. Requiring players to calculate all of this stuff before taking any action would break the game, trust me. Undo button is absolutely required. And I further think it is a good thing, since it allows for deeper analysis while not putting an administrative burden on the player.

Just throwing my hat in the ring here, yes I think HA benefits from undo because of this very reason (the complexity of the unit interactions and their consequences). With Outwitters keeping the math as simple as possible was a goal of ours so that players can easily do moves in their heads. This would not make the undo button an absolute must, and thus, part of the gameplay as opposed to an occasional tool. With fog of war it made that goal even more paramount.

[GreatGonzales]

(08-03-2012 12:42 PM)onealexleft Wrote:  Just throwing my hat in the ring here, yes I think HA benefits from undo because of this very reason (the complexity of the unit interactions and their consequences). With Outwitters keeping the math as simple as possible was a goal of ours so that players can easily do moves in their heads. This would not make the undo button an absolute must, and thus, part of the gameplay as opposed to an occasional tool. With fog of war it made that goal even more paramount.

Yup, I really like the simple math of Outwitters, keeps the game closer to purity. At first I didn't like the fog of war, preferring the game to be one of 100% knowledge. But now I like it, as it presents interesting surprise tactics. And yes, of course undo button would not work due to fog of war for Outwitters, but for HA it is a must.

[worldfamous]

(08-03-2012 06:24 AM)jaesonwu Wrote:  Seems like a great game but I don't like the fact that you don't have full control over what you can make. The random draw system is enough to keep me away from this. If it had a different unit and item production system using some kind of resource system which gave you full control over your turn I would love this game. The aesthetic is really great though. To be honest I prefer orcs, dark elves, humans, and dwarves to fish people, teddy bears, and robots (Well, the Scallywags and Feedback are still quite nice and it's something different, but I don't much like the Adorables =P).

And before anyone says anything, I know that just because HA has a luck element it doesn't mean the game doesn't take skill. I realize that skill plays a way larger role in deciding the winner than luck. I just personally don't like that kind of gameplay element. For me if a game is going to have a random draw feature it's only fun if I have at least some say over what I'm going to draw (like being able to design a deck). In the case of HA though there aren't tons of different 'cards' so deck building wouldn't help that much.

Anyway, I'll probably play it casually in pass and play or with friends but for ranked games I'll stick to Outwitters.

(08-03-2012 11:29 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 07:55 AM)NathanDetr0it Wrote:  Which is going to require a more strategic, inventive mind? Which translates to faster, more efficient decision-making on the board and in the real world? Or how about this: Which approach leads to better performance under pressure, like time or physical constraints?

What you are disregarding is the fact that, without an undo button, players will get badly burned by a miscalculation in the math some percentage of the time. Particularly with Dwarfs, the math can get pretty complicated. Some units have an innate magical or physical defense of 10% or 20%. Dwarven paladins have an aura effect that gives all adjacent allies a bonus 5% to all stats. The beer gives bonus 50% defense to magical and physical. Dwarfs also get a 20% bonus to the effects of boost squares (so for instance, a defense space will give you 24% physical defense rather than 20%). Scrolls multiply an attach by 3. For tribe, meat multiplies the next attack by 2.75. The dark elf void monk deals 66& splash damage. The council wizard deals 100%, 75%, then 55% damage to adjacent targets.

Anyway, you get my point. Requiring players to calculate all of this stuff before taking any action would break the game, trust me. Undo button is absolutely required. And I further think it is a good thing, since it allows for deeper analysis while not putting an administrative burden on the player.

What he said.

Hero Academy is just a different game and it needs the undo.

[PallaZ]

i didnt like it

[jaesonwu]

I agree that the undo button works great in hA. Any longtime HA players have anything to say about the random draw system vs a complete control system (some kind of 100% controlled resource system) for buying units and upgrades? I know it's not a flaw in the game, just a different mechanic than game like Advance Wars or Outwitters. But while it's not inherently 'bad' as I said earlier I would prefer 100% control to this random element. I'm curious if you veteran HA players think the random element is better/more fun in some way.

[Syvan]

(08-03-2012 11:40 PM)jaesonwu Wrote:  I agree that the undo button works great in hA. Any longtime HA players have anything to say about the random draw system vs a complete control system (some kind of 100% controlled resource system) for buying units and upgrades? I know it's not a flaw in the game, just a different mechanic than game like Advance Wars or Outwitters. But while it's not inherently 'bad' as I said earlier I would prefer 100% control to this random element. I'm curious if you veteran HA players think the random element is better/more fun in some way.

I would not call myself veteran, but I did like the idea. Although you could really get screwed by a draw, it did force you to adapt your play to a variety of situations. In a game with limited moves and controllable spawns, there would be a possibility that the game would be solved.

[ArtNJ]

I like both. HA feels so complex that its a drain to play it sometimes, but it offers a lot more variety than Outwitters, so it depends on my mood.

I also like Great Big War Game, although I very much dislike the poor implementation of fog of war in that game. I even like Uniwar, although the balance problems in that game are just retarded, as is the one day move timer.

I havent tried RAD Soldiers yet, which is only out in Candada, but it seems like a different animal.

I dont like Summoner Wars. Too complicated and too poorly ported to IOS to learn on IOS.

Some people also like Neuroshima Hex, but that really seems more like an asynch board game from the look of it. Never tried it though and folks say it has a big strategy element to it.

[P1noyboypj]

Being competetive in both I feel I should post:
Outwitters is basically 99.9% skill. I believe if u are prepared for anything, the fog of war lucky gambles can be minimized.
Hero academy is like 80% skill, 10% luck of the draw (either you or your opponent), and 10% matchups (like council vs dark elves). Luck of the draw is annoying, but balances out over time. Race matchups are minimized since they did a great job balancing the game, but there's still a paper rock scissor type feel that can't be avoided.
Both games have their niche, it's just your preference.

[Sakiehl]

Neuroshima Hex is a solid game. The post-apocalyptic theme doesn't really resonate with me but the mechanics are fun with lots of variety within the different armies. I enjoyed learning it. I would start with purchasing Neuroshima Hex Puzzle before the main game, though. It's a great introduction/tutorial to the game and a decent puzzle game on its own. I'm not sure why they made it a separate app.

I like Summoner Wars well enough. Same thing though, the fantasy/elves/etc. theme isn't super appealing. It's also missing some sense of satisfaction when you make the right move or win. Maybe it's because I'm new to it, but it feels like an accident when I win, not because I thought 3 moves ahead.

Have you tried Ravenmark? I played that for awhile until I got stuck on one of the later levels. I think they just added, or, are adding, multiplayer. I need to go check sometime.