Have you ever played Hero Academy?

[Kamikaze28]

(08-03-2012 04:09 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 03:56 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  I would encourage you to delete this thread and recreate it in the Poppycock forum which is meant for things that are neither related to Outwitters nor to Tilt to Live.

I prefer to let it go the way of the dodo. Also other forums do not get nearly as much traffic as this one, which defeats the purpose of a poll.

The other forums have less traffic because they have fewer threads and posts and they have fewer threads and posts because they have fewer traffic (according to you) - see where the cat bites its own tail?
I still feel this thread would be better placed in the Poppycock sub-forum.

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I have played Hero Academy only for a very short while. A short list of the reasons for me leaving Hero Academy:

• I disliked the luck of the draw game mechanic around which everything else revolves.
• I disliked the mandatory brute force "try before you commit"-nature of the game with all the available damage modifiers.
• Most importantly: the german translation was just bad. Not that the grammar didn't check out, but many texts like unit descriptions were displayed incompletely - which is kind of a game breaker if you play against a race you haven't seen before with units whose mechanic you can only partially comprehend until they smash your face in.
• Comic Sans.
• I disliked the monetization model.
  

[GreatGonzales]

(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Syvan Wrote:  Also, it seemed like anytime I faced the horde I lost. I really disliked the ability that could move my units around. Seriously not cool.

I also do not like the Tribe. I think the game was better before they were introduced.

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(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  The other forums have less traffic because they have fewer threads and posts and they have fewer threads and posts because they have fewer traffic (according to you) - see where the cat bites its own tail?
I still feel this thread would be better placed in the Poppycock sub-forum.

Don't you think that a much bigger factor determining the level of traffic in Poppycock is that the majority of people visiting this forum are here to talk about Outwitters or Tilt-to-Live? Thus, why do they need to visit Poppycock. In any case, I am merely interested in getting the maximum participation in my poll. Further, my interest is in what percentage of Outwitters players are also Hero Academy players, so there is good reason to put it here.

[TeckChavez]

Comic Sans cracked me up

The trial and error before submit is a bit odd but at least it is even because both players can do it.
I am always the dark elves and can usually counter any other team even when I get crap items to start so I think it is balanced fairly well. I am interested to see when it moves to Steam because I think they are going to have a TF2 team introduced which might be neat.

That being said, I stopped having 20+ games going on at once with Hero Academy and my time suck is now Outwitters and I am always at the 20 cap. Having the leagues, rankings and more challenging players makes it a bit more fun for me.

[worldfamous]

(08-03-2012 03:54 AM)swimj Wrote:  Downloaded it once, found the tutorial too annoying, never played afterwards. Now that I have outwitters I don't feel a pull to try it again and risk another time drain.

You really need to give it another shot. I love Outwitters but Hero Academy, IMO, is the best game on iOS. I put it in my top 10 of all games, all time, across all platforms. It is truly brilliant. I'm really excited about the new Team Fortress 2 team.

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(08-03-2012 05:15 AM)TeckChavez Wrote:  Comic Sans cracked me up

The trial and error before submit is a bit odd but at least it is even because both players can do it.
I am always the dark elves and can usually counter any other team even when I get crap items to start so I think it is balanced fairly well. I am interested to see when it moves to Steam because I think they are going to have a TF2 team introduced which might be neat.

That being said, I stopped having 20+ games going on at once with Hero Academy and my time suck is now Outwitters and I am always at the 20 cap. Having the leagues, rankings and more challenging players makes it a bit more fun for me.

The TF2 team looks very cool.

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(08-03-2012 05:03 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Syvan Wrote:  Also, it seemed like anytime I faced the horde I lost. I really disliked the ability that could move my units around. Seriously not cool.

I also do not like the Tribe. I think the game was better before they were introduced.

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(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  The other forums have less traffic because they have fewer threads and posts and they have fewer threads and posts because they have fewer traffic (according to you) - see where the cat bites its own tail?
I still feel this thread would be better placed in the Poppycock sub-forum.

Don't you think that a much bigger factor determining the level of traffic in Poppycock is that the majority of people visiting this forum are here to talk about Outwitters or Tilt-to-Live? Thus, why do they need to visit Poppycock. In any case, I am merely interested in getting the maximum participation in my poll. Further, my interest is in what percentage of Outwitters players are also Hero Academy players, so there is good reason to put it here.

Agree. I wouldn't have seen your poll in Poppycock.

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(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 04:09 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 03:56 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  I would encourage you to delete this thread and recreate it in the Poppycock forum which is meant for things that are neither related to Outwitters nor to Tilt to Live.

I prefer to let it go the way of the dodo. Also other forums do not get nearly as much traffic as this one, which defeats the purpose of a poll.

The other forums have less traffic because they have fewer threads and posts and they have fewer threads and posts because they have fewer traffic (according to you) - see where the cat bites its own tail?
I still feel this thread would be better placed in the Poppycock sub-forum.

---

I have played Hero Academy only for a very short while. A short list of the reasons for me leaving Hero Academy:

• I disliked the luck of the draw game mechanic around which everything else revolves.
• I disliked the mandatory brute force "try before you commit"-nature of the game with all the available damage modifiers.
• Most importantly: the german translation was just bad. Not that the grammar didn't check out, but many texts like unit descriptions were displayed incompletely - which is kind of a game breaker if you play against a race you haven't seen before with units whose mechanic you can only partially comprehend until they smash your face in.
• Comic Sans.
• I disliked the monetization model.
  

I disagree on every point, except the German translation. If I were to make a list of HA strengths, I would list all of the reasons you dislike it. Really curious about why you don't like the monetization model? It's an amazing game even if you only use the free team and then $1.99 per team after that. I think Outwitters has outdone them with the $2.99 for all teams option, but it's still an outstanding monetization model in my opinion. If you're talking about the $ for colors and profile pics, I guess I agree, but there's no reason to buy them (though I did, as I like to support great developers). I think we're all spoiled. Most people forget, before iOS, we were paying $30-$60 per game.

[jaesonwu]

Seems like a great game but I don't like the fact that you don't have full control over what you can make. The random draw system is enough to keep me away from this. If it had a different unit and item production system using some kind of resource system which gave you full control over your turn I would love this game. The aesthetic is really great though. To be honest I prefer orcs, dark elves, humans, and dwarves to fish people, teddy bears, and robots (Well, the Scallywags and Feedback are still quite nice and it's something different, but I don't much like the Adorables =P).

And before anyone says anything, I know that just because HA has a luck element it doesn't mean the game doesn't take skill. I realize that skill plays a way larger role in deciding the winner than luck. I just personally don't like that kind of gameplay element. For me if a game is going to have a random draw feature it's only fun if I have at least some say over what I'm going to draw (like being able to design a deck). In the case of HA though there aren't tons of different 'cards' so deck building wouldn't help that much.

Anyway, I'll probably play it casually in pass and play or with friends but for ranked games I'll stick to Outwitters.

[Sakiehl]

(08-03-2012 05:03 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 04:58 AM)Syvan Wrote:  Also, it seemed like anytime I faced the horde I lost. I really disliked the ability that could move my units around. Seriously not cool.

I also do not like the Tribe. I think the game was better before they were introduced.

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^ Same here. I played HA constantly. When the tribe came out, they were boring to play with and boring to play against. Every game seemed to end up with two massive armies staring each other down and not willing to move. Between that and slow loading times I lost interest shortly before Outwitters came out.

Outwitters was the game I was looking forward to all along and it's been even more fun than I had hoped.

[NathanDetr0it]

(08-03-2012 05:51 AM)worldfamous Wrote:  I disagree on every point...[assumably including randomness]

If Strategy requires some element of planning for and deployment against some unknown variable (and I think it does), I'd much rather that unknown be significant, but rectifiable through critical trade-off decision-making or some other action (like Fog Of War). Limiting and semi-randomizing the choices a player faces goes both too far and not far enough to correctly provide that balance between unknown and known. To me, randomness is an excuse to blame the game for losses.

I'd also be curious to hear an argument in favor of including an "undo button" in a competitive multiplayer game, which reduces the pressure that accompanies any deployment of strategic thinking to a useful end in the real world. I understand if that is not a super-compelling selling point for everyone.

In summary: ick, randomness and undo button, ick.

[GreatGonzales]

(08-03-2012 07:21 AM)NathanDetr0it Wrote:  I'd also be curious to hear an argument in favor of including an "undo button" in a competitive multiplayer game, which greatly reduces the pressure that accompanies any deployment of strategic thinking to a useful end in the real world. I understand if that is not a super compelling selling point for everyone.

I'm actually surprised to hear so much negative feedback with regard to the undo button. On the contrary, I think this is one of the nicest features of Hero Academy. High level play requires a lot of math, so in lieu of forcing players to decide all 5 actions ahead of time by calculating ALL possibilities, the game allows players to experiment with different deployment options and settle on the best one. Definitely more user friendly than the alternative. Compare this to chess, when I play chess I often will take a piece and move it to a space just so I can visualize the move, but then realize that it is a bad move and I return the piece to its original space. This is the same with Hero Academy. I do not think the undo button diminishes the level of strategic depth; I think it enhances it.

[NathanDetr0it]

(08-03-2012 07:38 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  Compare this to chess, when I play chess I often will take a piece and move it to a space just so I can visualize the move, but then realize that it is a bad move and I return the piece to its original space.

Well, two things. First, sometimes I do wish Outwitters had an undo button, so that I could pre-arrange all of my moves (without expanding my vision over the battlefield, of course), look at the resultant position of a planned moveset, and think about distances and wit counts with my pieces already in their as-moved locations. Relying on my eyes is certainly easier and, as you say, more user-friendly.

Of course, I could teach my brain and imagination to visualize a complete moveset in my mind, without having to rely on the physical, visual feedback of making dummy moves on the board. Over time, (If I didn't suck at this so bad ) I might eventually be able to visualize whole sets of potential outcomes at a glance, and instantly make mental connections from one position to the next, and so on until the conclusion of a moveset or match.

Which is going to require a more strategic, inventive mind? Which translates to faster, more efficient decision-making on the board and in the real world? Or how about this: Which approach leads to better performance under pressure, like time or physical constraints?

I know those aren't the exact questions we're trying to answer here, but I think the answers are interesting.

The second thing I'll say is that I affirm your use of Chess as a good example: and what you described above is actually illegal in Chess (for the reasons above, I would guess). In any case in Chess you can only ever plan one move in advance before you are forced to adjust to your opponent's response, unlike Hero Academy's five.

EDIT: hey, just booted up HA for the first time in a bit and was reminded of another ick: Ads.

[GreatGonzales]

(08-03-2012 07:55 AM)NathanDetr0it Wrote:  Which is going to require a more strategic, inventive mind? Which translates to faster, more efficient decision-making on the board and in the real world? Or how about this: Which approach leads to better performance under pressure, like time or physical constraints?

What you are disregarding is the fact that, without an undo button, players will get badly burned by a miscalculation in the math some percentage of the time. Particularly with Dwarfs, the math can get pretty complicated. Some units have an innate magical or physical defense of 10% or 20%. Dwarven paladins have an aura effect that gives all adjacent allies a bonus 5% to all stats. The beer gives bonus 50% defense to magical and physical. Dwarfs also get a 20% bonus to the effects of boost squares (so for instance, a defense space will give you 24% physical defense rather than 20%). Scrolls multiply an attach by 3. For tribe, meat multiplies the next attack by 2.75. The dark elf void monk deals 66& splash damage. The council wizard deals 100%, 75%, then 55% damage to adjacent targets.

Anyway, you get my point. Requiring players to calculate all of this stuff before taking any action would break the game, trust me. Undo button is absolutely required. And I further think it is a good thing, since it allows for deeper analysis while not putting an administrative burden on the player.