Bramble v3

[Porceveer]

(03-17-2013 05:55 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 04:05 AM)Porceveer Wrote:  That's it. I've had enough of this OP new bramble. I was still trying to play Adorables cause I didn't want to switch to Veggies like everyone else but it's impossible. There are only Veggies out there now and Adorables are absolutely helpless.

I acutally had the opinion to give it some time but after having played too many matches vs this crappy weed I have enough.

The worst thing is: IT'S NO FUN ANYMORE! Thorns blocking all of the map, no skill needed, if you make a mistake, who cares? You can just retreat and you get the bonus of your oponent not even having a replay to look at!

In my opinion there are only two options: quit the game or switch to Veggies like everyone else and play boring, neverending games with Bramble vs. Bramble. I will never do the second so my choice is clear, I take the first one.

OML WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU MADE THIS UPDATE? I've loved this game for almost 5 months but you managed to take everything away that made this game special in a blink. As much as I love your guys' work, I really hope I can manage to pick it up again when this bramble is fixed. I'm not sure though..

What disapoints me is that you're an excellent player, and what you said doesn't fit. Bramble is NOT (in what language do you need us to tell it?) totally overpowered, far from unbeatable, etc. Freaking out like that is useless, OML tries to balance the game as well as possible and needs time! Balancing units that have totallly different powers is extremely hard in a strategy game, and the ga between bramble and other specials isn't that big.

Oh and Ihave not spawned one single bramble in a league game since the update.

You know, I haven't won a single game vs. a Bramble since the update. And the other thing is there is nothing else out there anymore! Believe me, I've tried all kinds of strategies, nothing works. If you make a mistake with a thorn, well, bad luck, you lost one, maybe two wits. No other unit is that forgiving. And really, it's almost impossible to make a real mistake since if so you simply unroot for free.

Vs. a only half decently played Bramble you blunter once and it's totally over. It's no fun, not at all, and that's the reason I'm playing this game. If there's no fun in it anymore there is no point for me in keeping it going.

[Mag!cGuy]

It's really surprising. Either I'm lucky and haven't met a good veggie player until now, or we can make friendlies so that I show you very simple points to counter bramble.

[TheQwertiest]

(03-17-2013 06:15 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  It's really surprising. Either I'm lucky and haven't met a good veggie player until now, or we can make friendlies so that I show you very simple points to counter bramble.

yeah counter strategies would really help. sent you an invite. also feedback is my main team so it would help if you use that cause i find it almost impossible to use feedback against veggies. adorables is fine too. just no scallywags or veggies..

[Porceveer]

(03-17-2013 06:15 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  It's really surprising. Either I'm lucky and haven't met a good veggie player until now, or we can make friendlies so that I show you very simple points to counter bramble.

Nope, I'm sorry. I totally refuse to ever touch this thing.

So what options are there? Heavies? Too slow and easily snipable. Snipers? Too weak, easy kill for thornes? Soldiers? Really? 3 Wits to take out one? Nice trade! Runners? Don't even think about bringing them into the game.

[Mag!cGuy]

(03-17-2013 06:24 AM)Porceveer Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 06:15 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  It's really surprising. Either I'm lucky and haven't met a good veggie player until now, or we can make friendlies so that I show you very simple points to counter bramble.

Nope, I'm sorry. I totally refuse to ever touch this thing.

So what options are there? Heavies? Too slow and easily snipable. Snipers? Too weak, easy kill for thornes? Soldiers? Really? 3 Wits to take out one? Nice trade! Runners? Don't even think about bringing them into the game.

You overconsider the power of bramble, really. Heavies are basically unbeatable, especially in maps like Reaper or Thorn Gulley.. Just don't let them into the range of possible snipes. Never let your wit space free. Health each unit. Attack the weakest part. And there are a tons of other advices like this.

[Uvafan173]

(03-17-2013 06:33 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 06:24 AM)Porceveer Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 06:15 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  It's really surprising. Either I'm lucky and haven't met a good veggie player until now, or we can make friendlies so that I show you very simple points to counter bramble.

Nope, I'm sorry. I totally refuse to ever touch this thing.

So what options are there? Heavies? Too slow and easily snipable. Snipers? Too weak, easy kill for thornes? Soldiers? Really? 3 Wits to take out one? Nice trade! Runners? Don't even think about bringing them into the game.

You overconsider the power of bramble, really. Heavies are basically unbeatable, especially in [undefined=undefined]maps like Reaper or Thorn Gulley[/undefined].. Just don't let them into the range of possible snipes. Never let your wit space free. Health each unit. Attack the weakest part. And there are a tons of other advices like this.

but Thorn Gulley is so big, how can you get heavies everywhere the thorns are? I agree that heavies work on reaper, though.

[Giu-BR]

(03-16-2013 02:03 AM)W1cked21 Wrote:  The more I play being adorables or feedback, the more I think bramble is in fact not overpowered at all.

If anyone doesn't believe me, he can invite me in a friendly being veggies. Even on Tg.

Hey man, I enjoy your replies and I think it's great you've managed to master countering brambles.

Because of that, I think you should play some friendlies with blckace, who is also adamant about brambles, but at the other side of the spectrum believing they are OP. And he is also willing to play anyone to prove his point.

I hope that more same skill matches help OML decide on this issue and fix it if needed.

[ImperialSun]

I don't think heavies are viable counters to brambles on large maps. I've played some friendlies against top 100 players using veggies and every time my opponent makes heavies to defend against my thorns they lose. You just spawn thorns to harass a part of the map away from the heavies or spawn a lot of thorns so the heavies cant kill the, as fast as you make them. I've won 8 games so far like this so I think a different counter is required though I'm not sure what. Do you have replays of a successful heavy defense on a large map? I actually think that even on small maps you can still beat heavies just by swamping them in so many thorns that they can't kill them all. Then use snipers soldiers and thorns to kill the heavies while they're busy killing the thorns instead of your units.

(03-17-2013 04:05 AM)Porceveer Wrote:  That's it. I've had enough of this OP new bramble. I was still trying to play Adorables cause I didn't want to switch to Veggies like everyone else but it's impossible. There are only Veggies out there now and Adorables are absolutely helpless.

I acutally had the opinion to give it some time but after having played too many matches vs this crappy weed I have enough.

The worst thing is: IT'S NO FUN ANYMORE! Thorns blocking all of the map, no skill needed, if you make a mistake, who cares? You can just retreat and you get the bonus of your oponent not even having a replay to look at!

In my opinion there are only two options: quit the game or switch to Veggies like everyone else and play boring, neverending games with Bramble vs. Bramble. I will never do the second so my choice is clear, I take the first one.

OML WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU MADE THIS UPDATE? I've loved this game for almost 5 months but you managed to take everything away that made this game special in a blink. As much as I love your guys' work, I really hope I can manage to pick it up again when this bramble is fixed. I'm not sure though..

That's how I feel about mobi. Using scallywag and to a lesser extent feedback against a good adorables player is not enjoyable. As a result I stopped playing just like you as have quite a lot of top tier scallywag and feedback players. Now I only play my World Cup games and friendlies when I'm invited. It's funny though how similar the situation you describe is to the way adorables are. The top players either switched to adorables or stopped playing, yet the adorables have not been nerfed at all for multiple months. The main difference is that it is easier to abuse the bramble than the mobi without understanding the game as well. This is why the adorables haven't gotten as much attention as the bramble despite being seemingly OP just like the bramble (it only impacts a very small percentage of players and so the fact that it is an issue has received less attention). If you don't believe me you are deluding yourself. Show me a replay in the past month between 2 top 100 players where a scallywag play beat an adorables player using a bombshell (of course, one replay in an entire month isn't really enough, so find more than that if possible). I have found a number of feedback wins mostly from p0123456789, but vastly fewer wins with feedback than wins with adorables in AvF (where specials were used).

[Mag!cGuy]

First war garden league battle, enjoy!
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y5aWJAww

[Gf!sh]

So, as I think the point with Bramble is that it requires way less skill imput for good results then other specials (which is further enhanced by the fact that the yelly, redundant comments come from lower leagues), I've made a lil' graph to show everyone:



NOTICE: this graph is just global, and proportions are just made up. But you get the idea.

The horizontal axis represents the skill level as an average of all races on a certain person, while the vertical axis represents what kind of opponents this person would be able to beat with a specific race (shown by the lines).