Outwitters Break List (Veggienauts 3.0)

[GreatGonzales]

He reached 5 character limit using html. Clever workaround.

[Norahsul]

remember when everyone was concerning (i wouldn't use the word "complain" it's too negative) bramble was weak and nobody ever want to play with it, only one in top 200 played it.

Ask and You Shall Receive!

Adam & Alex gave you an update ,and even hinted will make the bramble as strong so it can be competitive with other races (i.e 4 hp, HA). Now the update came and everyone was excited to "learn" how to use it effectively and against; it's merely a stage of transition.

No need for a list. By the amount of threads on the forum, as responsive as A&A are, I am sure they were fully aware of this already and probably has some plans in mind.

In the meantime, I personally think the players should just really take time to learn the strategy. After all, that was the least played race and now it's getting some attention, so new strategy must be created or studied; and have fun!

there's my two cents.

[Exzachtlee]

Oh man! I'm really sorry, everyone. I apologize that my thread came off as rude, disrespectful, aggressive, inappropriate, or offensive to anyone.
I felt that I explained my goals as plainly and purely as I possibly could:

(03-13-2013 01:49 PM)Exzachtlee Wrote:  This thread has two purposes:

1. To provide a definitive list of the Outwitters players who are on strike, which will give everyone a better idea of the exact people who are protesting the new Bramble as well how many of them there are.
2. To find community with the players that believe that they should protest Outwitters because the new Bramble is that bad. Also, if these players are not on total protest, then these are players that are probably up for more friendly games since they have more game slots open.

If anything I wrote was in contradiction with these two goals, please let me know exactly where I went wrong so that I, too, can identify the problems and consequently fix them.

If it's a problem with my tone, please let me know exactly how I made my post seem to be written with such ill will and poor taste and please let me know exactly how I should properly express my thoughts.
Based on my experience in the real world, I've learned that clear and direct communication is the key to solving problems effectively and efficiently. For example, in my band, I have realized that telling a weak member, "Hey, you suck at music." does not help much. However, giving that fellow human-being feedback helps far better, giving them definite goals to work at and allowing them to clearly identify for themselves what their problems are. Examples of this would be
"Hey, you're rushing your sixteenth-note runs during Measure 47. Subdivide the beats so that you can feel the rhythm better."
or
"Your intonation needs work. When you practice at home, practice long tones with a tuner and aim to keep the pitches centered for as long as you can. Also, listen to yourself when you practice and evaluate your playing. Think about how you can sound better every time you play."
So thank you for bringing up this issue. I’d rather have people think badly of me and bring it out into the open than people think that way and say nothing. I detest those elephant-in-the-room/Emperor's New Clothes situations when they involve an easily correctable issue.

Perhaps I am being misunderstood because of my personal egocentricism (inability to take another’s point of view). I read over my post many times in an attempt to make sure that I wouldn’t offend everyone. It seems I failed. When I read my post in my head, I used a neutral, somewhat scholarly, tone because that was the tone that I was aiming for. In doing so, I must have blinded myself to the pitfalls of my own writing.

My two goals were really just one goal, split into two separately defined aspects; I wanted to attain a better idea of what exactly is going on with the opposition to the Bramble and thought others should too. There are several threads that comment on how much some players dislike the new Bramble, but I wanted to do something different-- I wanted to see what people were doing about it. And of course, the subject that caught my eye was the seemingly profuse amount of stories of players taking a collective break from the game or certain game modes.

I now realize that the words “strike” and “protest” are too strong. And yes, I did not mean them by their literal definitions, but more in metaphorical ways. I thought about using “petition”, but I felt it was not appropriate for the context I was aiming for, albeit it being a word with a far more peaceful connotation. I’m completely at a loss in this area.

The underlying premise of my big idea is to reach out and acquire a better grasp of the Outwitters community. I, too, love the game and the community, but I feel that perhaps I might have misled some people to think otherwise through my lack of stating this. I feel that the forums are abounding in posts professing players' love for the game and I felt that I did not need to say the exact same thing that everyone else says. I sort of assumed that everyone feels the same way and that I would not need to say so myself.

And, hey, go easy on me. I'm just an ambitious (and probably naive) high school student just trying to do my best and learn all that I can.

My apologies,
exzachtlee

---

oh, and what's up with Gf!sh's post?
I don't get it.
At first, I thought he used white-colored text, so I highlighted everything, but that didn't work. So now I have no clue.
Can someone please explain? :O

[TheQwertiest]

gfich just placed some codes.
ie.

Code:

[b][/b]

[:!:CoryMo:!:]

I don't think it's the tone of your post, I think it's the overall sentiment itself. As Gonzalez said, OML has always made balance a priority and they've tried to expand their team choices to add variety for us. Then they've tweaked and tweaked to try and regain the balance that was lacking with the new team. Give them some time and some credit. Do you really think they aren't monitoring gameplay and statistics to see where Bramble needs to ultimately land for the best experience?

They were talented and smart enough to create the game in the first place, I'm not going to assume they've given up on their original intent merely two weeks into the new update.

[Norahsul]

(03-14-2013 05:34 PM)Exzachtlee Wrote:  Oh man! I'm really sorry, everyone. I apologize that my thread came off as rude, disrespectful, aggressive, inappropriate, or offensive to anyone.
I felt that I explained my goals as plainly and purely as I possibly could:

(03-13-2013 01:49 PM)Exzachtlee Wrote:  This thread has two purposes:

1. To provide a definitive list of the Outwitters players who are on strike, which will give everyone a better idea of the exact people who are protesting the new Bramble as well how many of them there are.
2. To find community with the players that believe that they should protest Outwitters because the new Bramble is that bad. Also, if these players are not on total protest, then these are players that are probably up for more friendly games since they have more game slots open.

If anything I wrote was in contradiction with these two goals, please let me know exactly where I went wrong so that I, too, can identify the problems and consequently fix them.

If it's a problem with my tone, please let me know exactly how I made my post seem to be written with such ill will and poor taste and please let me know exactly how I should properly express my thoughts.
Based on my experience in the real world, I've learned that clear and direct communication is the key to solving problems effectively and efficiently. For example, in my band, I have realized that telling a weak member, "Hey, you suck at music." does not help much. However, giving that fellow human-being feedback helps far better, giving them definite goals to work at and allowing them to clearly identify for themselves what their problems are. Examples of this would be
"Hey, you're rushing your sixteenth-note runs during Measure 47. Subdivide the beats so that you can feel the rhythm better."
or
"Your intonation needs work. When you practice at home, practice long tones with a tuner and aim to keep the pitches centered for as long as you can. Also, listen to yourself when you practice and evaluate your playing. Think about how you can sound better every time you play."
So thank you for bringing up this issue. I’d rather have people think badly of me and bring it out into the open than people think that way and say nothing. I detest those elephant-in-the-room/Emperor's New Clothes situations when they involve an easily correctable issue.

Perhaps I am being misunderstood because of my personal egocentricism (inability to take another’s point of view). I read over my post many times in an attempt to make sure that I wouldn’t offend everyone. It seems I failed. When I read my post in my head, I used a neutral, somewhat scholarly, tone because that was the tone that I was aiming for. In doing so, I must have blinded myself to the pitfalls of my own writing.

My two goals were really just one goal, split into two separately defined aspects; I wanted to attain a better idea of what exactly is going on with the opposition to the Bramble and thought others should too. There are several threads that comment on how much some players dislike the new Bramble, but I wanted to do something different-- I wanted to see what people were doing about it. And of course, the subject that caught my eye was the seemingly profuse amount of stories of players taking a collective break from the game or certain game modes.

I now realize that the words “strike” and “protest” are too strong. And yes, I did not mean them by their literal definitions, but more in metaphorical ways. I thought about using “petition”, but I felt it was not appropriate for the context I was aiming for, albeit it being a word with a far more peaceful connotation. I’m completely at a loss in this area.

The underlying premise of my big idea is to reach out and acquire a better grasp of the Outwitters community. I, too, love the game and the community, but I feel that perhaps I might have misled some people to think otherwise through my lack of stating this. I feel that the forums are abounding in posts professing players' love for the game and I felt that I did not need to say the exact same thing that everyone else says. I sort of assumed that everyone feels the same way and that I would not need to say so myself.

And, hey, go easy on me. I'm just an ambitious (and probably naive) high school student just trying to do my best and learn all that I can.

My apologies,
exzachtlee

---

oh, and what's up with Gf!sh's post?
I don't get it.
At first, I thought he used white-colored text, so I highlighted everything, but that didn't work. So now I have no clue.
Can someone please explain? :O

Hey exzachtlee (actually I wonder if your name is something has zack n last name lee)...
Joking aside, no worries about the post. I think for me, it's just bramble's thron is expanding from the map to forum lol

There has been enough grief about the new update, a&a are two great guys they continuously support the game play, n I personally would like to see something more positive from the community.

For example, since you asked
1. Why is there a need to know how many people are striking? Does that serve any purposes in terms of your own game play experience? If your goal is to understand who's still willing to play,
2. Instead of having the strike list, can have a "welcome friendly" list so people still know who would like to play, and for those who don't, they don't and its their loss.

My two cents.
N keep it short lol
That's just personal preference

That aside, I think you are doing a good job following up n clarifying yourself to make sure you are understood

Now on my way to lol

[ImperialSun]

I am more concerned about the mobi. The bramble has gotten plenty of attention. The balance may be out of line at the moment but I'm sure OML will patch it. The primary problem with the bramble is that it has overshadowed the brokenness of the mobi and pushed it in a corner. I hope that we have not forgotten about the mobi and that it will be balanced too. Mobi vs scallywags is especially broken, but feedback players are also struggling.

The biggest difference between mobi and bramble imbalance is that the bramble mechanic is easy to abuse even for mediocre players while the mobi requires some understanding of wit efficiency and trades. This means that the bramble has gotten plenty of attention since it has impacted players at all tiers while the mobi has not even though they both are problematic.

[GreatGonzales]

(03-15-2013 01:44 AM)ImperialSun Wrote:  I am more concerned about the mobi. The bramble has gotten plenty of attention. The balance may be out of line at the moment but I'm sure OML will patch it. The primary problem with the bramble is that it has overshadowed the brokenness of the mobi and pushed it in a corner. I hope that we have not forgotten about the mobi and that it will be balanced too. Mobi vs scallywags is especially broken, but feedback players are also struggling.

The biggest difference between mobi and bramble imbalance is that the bramble mechanic is easy to abuse even for mediocre players while the mobi requires some understanding of wit efficiency and trades. This means that the bramble has gotten plenty of attention since it has impacted players at all tiers while the mobi has not even though they both are problematic.

I think the mobi is fine. Anyway, what could you change? Hp down to 1 seems the only thing, or movement down to 2, but both of those nerfs seem too harsh.

[ImperialSun]

How is it fine when all the top players over the past few months have switched to adorables? If it had only been for a few weeks or even a month then I wouldn't be concerned, but it has been for multiple months. Long enough that the fraction of adorable team use has exceeded that of scallywag team use on OSN. Look at all the top scallywags and feedback players. They've either suffered a drop in the rankings, switched to adorables and maintained or risen, or quit outwitters since nothing has been done.

I agree that balancing the mobi is problematic though. Most of the nerfs seem overly harsh like the one alvendor suggested a month or so ago (I think it was that you couldn't use the mobi on a unit that had moved already). I don't know if this would help or overcompensate, but maybe limiting the teleport range to units 4/5 spaces away (or whatever is optimal) would work. Mobi health and mobility is still intact but it is limited more in where it can be used. Then again I don't know if this really addresses the correct problem. Alvendor's nerf makes more sense, but also seems to make the mobi far less interesting which isn't optimal.

[worldfamous]

(03-13-2013 11:23 PM)Harti Wrote:  My break probably isn't too Bramble-related, it's much more of a general "I don't like the way my games play out" thing; but even before Alvendor used to climb the Top 10 with Bramble usage, I wanted to become a Bramble master.

But now I don't want to anymore. Mastering the Bramble actually takes 1 tap: choosing the Veggienauts. Okay, maybe a second (spawning a Bramble).

So yeah, you can put me up the list if you like, I guess if it was a little harder for a Bramble player to achieve a win, I'd be all into figuring viable tactics out, but that'd probably require removing the Thorns' attacking ability. Well, whatever.

I'm curious what the purpose of the beta was. I know you were in it and your opinion there was that it was OP. I don't think I saw any other opinion. I thought one purpose of a beta was to work out balance issues.

---

This is probably not the right thread for this and someone may have already proposed it, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. How about boosting the thorn cost to 2 wits for the nerf. The big problem seems to be the proliferation of thorns throughout the map, thus killing the fun. Doubling the cost cuts the amount of thorns in half (that's the extent of my math skill, and I probably got that wrong). What do you guys think?