Please buff The Scrambler

laYahooz · 03-08-2013, 11:32 AM

(03-08-2013 06:39 AM)Alvendor Wrote: Decrease its cost by one would be simple and effective

I like it. Scramblers are most dangerous if they can keep coming.

OW11 · 03-09-2013, 04:44 AM

If there was a buff it should be moving over gaps. Mostly because he looks like he could do that already. Cos he is flying in his stance. Big Grin

ElPared · 03-09-2013, 06:06 AM

(03-09-2013 04:44 AM)OW11 Wrote: If there was a buff it should be moving over gaps. Mostly because he looks like he could do that already. Cos he is flying in his stance.

By that logic, Mobi should be able to do it too Tongue

Ja Karta · (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013 06:58 AM by Ja Karta.)

(03-09-2013 04:44 AM)OW11 Wrote: If there was a buff it should be moving over gaps. Mostly because he looks like he could do that already. Cos he is flying in his stance.

Too map specific. Makes map balance much more difficult. Also too conditional.

Best options put forward so far (imo) are:
Alvendor/blkace: 6 wit scramblers (this is roughly equivalent to starting with 2hp but being unbuffable, and much simpler)
blkace: scrambled units start with full health (to increase the wit equity; though it seems much less tactically exciting this way)

Simplest option:
Ja Karta: increase scrambler health by one (though this is probably only reasonable if there is a general power creep; such that the current brambler is the standard)

[Edit: "blkace" what is your handle supposed to read as? I confess... I have mixed feelings about even typing it... Though I realize (and hope) that I may be reading it wrong.]

ElPared · 03-09-2013, 07:46 AM

I was thinking about wit investment to kill something. For the other 3 specials the wit investment needed to kill it is generally much higher than the cost of the unit itself.

This is true for everything but the Scrambler, where usually it costs anywhere from 1 to 4 wits to kill it after one use unless it has some pretty heavy backup. That doesn't factor in the wit cost of the scrambled unit of course, but if you think about it in terms of the unit dying instead of getting scrambled then the other 3 Specials still come out ahead.

I think if the scrambled units stayed at their current health it would make the wit investment needed to kill Scramblers closer to the other specials. This way you could use the scrambled units to shield the scrambler allowing for more uses.

it's hard to balance the Scrambler though because it's a unit that could easily become not just OP, but completely broken with one simple buff.

**connor34911** · 03-10-2013, 08:14 AM

How about reducing scramblers movement to 2, but increasing it's range to 2. This would keep its effective range at 3, but reduce the chance that the unit is lost after a conversion.

CombatEX · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 01:25 PM by CombatEX.)

(03-07-2013 05:56 PM)Necrocat219 Wrote: I think that a scrambler gaining +2 wits on the turn it scrambles would be a perfectly reasonable buff, making it something too significant would probably make it OP (4 movement would be really evil as a spawn attack ) However just to note that with all these buffs a 'power creep' is taking place. Okay I just got the image of one day have a 5hp scrambler, Nuke Bombshell Mobi that units can move after being teleported and free thorns. XD

The bonus wits on scramble is an interesting thought that never occurred to me. Not sure if I prefer it over scrambled units simply retaining some health, but nice thought regardless worth considering.

As for power creep, I don't know if it is necessarily. Veggienauts were terrible and clearly needed a buff so we can ignore them. What about Feedback getting buffed then? Well, personally I think it is more important to nerf Adorables than it is to buff Feedback. Adorables clearly trump both Scallywags and Feedback at the moment (just look at all the high level players over a protracted period of time). The question is, is Feedback disadvantaged against Scallywags? If so, then Feedback should be buffed. However, it is hard to tell because everyone is playing Adorables and FvS games have become relatively uncommon in high level play.

(03-09-2013 07:46 AM)ElPared Wrote: I think if the scrambled units stayed at their current health it would make the wit investment needed to kill Scramblers closer to the other specials. This way you could use the scrambled units to shield the scrambler allowing for more uses.

Though I would like to try this buff, as you mention, it is risky. If you can use a scrambler more than once it usually gives you an extreme advantage. The problem with balancing the scrambler is that there is a dramatic difference between scrambling one unit vs two units. For example, say that you scrambler a soldier 2 moves from your opponents spawn and 3 moves from yours. Your opponent loses 4 wits effective value. In the mean time you gain 5 wits value from that soldier (2 wits to spawn and 3 moves to get over there). However, the soldier has 1 health which is like your opponent having spent 1 wit to damage it. Let's just say that it's worth 4 wits. So this means you've gained 8 wits advantage by scrambling that soldier. Now, if you are able to use your scrambler again, you gain another ~8 wit advantage. The point is that each time you scrambler a unit you gain a massive wit advantage over your opponent. Of course, when you lose your scrambler you lose a lot of wits too. The point though is that scrambler wit gains and losses are very volatile compared to other teams. Bombshells and mobis (in conjunction with offensive units) pick away at defenses each turn to gain small advantages over time instead of a massive one all at once.

blckace · 03-10-2013, 01:36 PM

You make a good point combatex but I don't think it would make the scrambler OP it would put it on the same level with the other teams. Most likely the scrambler will die after usage it's a rare occurrence to be able to protect it if there's an enemy unit nearby. The biggest advantage gained from scrambled units keeping their health is that investing wits in the scrambler will no longer be disadvantageous. As it's right now if you scramble anything it costs at least two wits to heal it if not more on larger maps because the action is far away. Moving the healer that far costs too many wits and you end up losing your medic. As more players anticipate the scambler like it is at the super titan league, using the scambler no longer causes swings between the two forces. It is no longer if I just successfully use the scrambler it's auto win, that's why scrambled units should keep their health to make using the scambler a worthy investment.

Ser Purple Wolf · 03-10-2013, 01:41 PM

Maybe if it can scramble the victim can keep all health but cannot move or attack that turn.

blckace · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 01:51 PM by blckace.)

I disagree with you, I think that would be a big nerf. The best way to deal with this is release it for the beta testers and try it.

In other news, I don't know how the vegginauts change got released, they are the gods of outwitters currently and I don't think any team can beat them. The thorn health must be changed back to 2 with everything else staying the same. Edit: not that I mind, I am enjoying their unlimited strength and they're quiet fun to play.