What's wrong with the veggies??

[KMan 29]

(03-03-2013 08:57 AM)GoHeat 3 Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 07:53 AM)KMan 29 Wrote:  The biggest problem I have with the bramble is I end up spawning thorns and not leaving myself wits to spawn units. That being said I do like the bramble and it has saved me from defeat before.

Not recommended bramble use

85 turn bramble comeback

These might not be the greatest example my opponents had made som mistakes but they do show what a bramble can do. 4 HP thorns...watch out!

The 4 HP thorns were a joke.

I just wish you could break your own thorns.

[EastArete]

If I win with Veggies, it's only because I Didn't spawn Bramble, ha.
Bramble thumbs down!

[Uvafan173]

(03-03-2013 06:13 PM)OW11 Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 01:02 PM)Mtoor21 Wrote:  Yes, finally made it to top 200 with only veggies

Kee_23

I saw this on a reply in the weekly 200 forums.

I've played against him and I don't think he usually gets a bramble.

[Gavin Wins]

Thanks for the praise on my veggie game with Sir3. I didn't play as well as I could have that game. I made a couple mistakes that would have allowed me to end the game much sooner had I not made them (in particular on turn 35, if I had switched the placement of my scout and vine, my heavy would have lived). But overall, that game represented the style of play that I like with Bramble... very aggressive and suffocating with its vines.

That said, I think that the "buff" of the Bramble's vines to 3hp isn't actually a buff at all. It should never be wit efficient to kill a vine. As awpertunity mentioned in a previous post in this thread, all the buff has done is changed tactics that good players use against veggies. Now, against veggies, I spawn more snipers and heavies than I normally do. This effectively neuters the effectiveness of vines because I can remove them for free, while it costs the veggie player a wit to spawn them.

The most glaring problem with the new 3hp vines is against Bombshells. The biggest problem with vines previously was that they were weak against Bombshells. Well, now they are even weaker against Bombshells because a direct hit on a vine will refund the wit, and the splash damage will drop an adjacent vine down to 2hp, allowing a soldier to kill the adjacent vine for free with the wit return.

In my replay against Sir3, I would have certainly lost if Sir3 had gone heavier on snipers/heavies earlier in the game instead of using scout/soldier combos to kill my vines.

The Bramble, while still great in 2v2s, is deficient in 1v1s even after the 3hp "buff." It should never cost a veggie player more to create a vine than it costs the opponent to destroy the same vine. The wit refund simply must go, or the hp of vines must be increased such that a 1-hit refunded wit kill isn't possible.

I like the idea of vine entanglement, which was mentioned previously in this thread, but I'm not sure how feasible that is in the game's programming. Another thought I had was that vines could displace enemy units by spawning one under the enemy unit, moving them off the tile, but that might be too powerful.

But, I am happy to see that OML plans on tweaking the Bramble a little more.

[Alvendor]

Agree with Gavin. And speaking of Sir3, I think he his the highest ranked player that regularly plays veggies. So you can definitely reach super titan with them. But if he switched and played adorables as good as he plays feedback (and maybe veggies?) he would be ranked much higher.

I played veggies seriously at the start. It was fine in the beginning when everybody else was playing veggies, or when I was up against feedback. But against a really good adorables or scallywags player I didn't have a chance. I could win if they were not used to veggies, but as the top players do, after my first win they would realize their mistake and adjust turning the rest of the games to auto wins for them.

The 3hp "buff" made it impossible to turtle with veggies as every killed thorn with a sniper is a wit lost for the veggie player. So the strategy left is the aggressive suffocating one gavin describes. But if the opponent knows this is your only option...

So I stopped playing veggies in league games, part because some games would be auto losses and part because a drop in ranking would prevent me from playing the best players..

[OW11]

It seems now that people will play veggies more and some think now with the new update they are OP

[jimbo2shady]

(03-07-2013 06:23 PM)OW11 Wrote:  It seems now that people will play veggies more and some think now with the new update they are OP

I'm just glad they have some offense other than covering up Wit and spawn hexes.