Bump these teams to SuperTitan please!!!

[amoffett11]

(02-19-2013 11:24 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

Quote:I'm pretty sure it's not a false assumption. Lowering the threshold makes it easier to be a supertitan. It would take less time and less skill than it does currently. That's what a fast track is.

Dude. The point is that the threshold is too high, so we should correct it. I already explained why complaining that we are lessening the distinction of being ST is not valid; unless you respond to that...I don't know what to say.

Why is it not valid? If its easier to get there, it's less of a distinction, just by definition.

And the fact that the threshold is "too" high or that the current system is "flawed" is a matter of opinion, and that is really where everyone differs. Despite all the comparisons to 1v1, all the percentage evaluations, all your arguments in favour of lowering the threshold, you haven't proved anything. It is only an opinion that the threshold is too high, or that the system is flawed. Just like it is only an opinion that as it stands currently, there is nothing wrong with it. You think ST should represent a percentage, I think it should represent a skill level. Obviously we aren't going to change each others mind. But facts are facts, and lowering the threshold does lower the distinction. If say at a school they only call a student an "honours student" if he gets 95%, and then for a few years they realize that the number of honours students is dropping. If they then reduced the threshold to 90% so that they had the same number as before, being an honours student wouldn't mean as much as it once did.

[worldfamous]

I should've read GG's comic first. Good reminder of what an ass I can be.

[laYahooz]

I think combatEx's post above sums it all up. Simply put, there are too many masters and 2 STs. I don't think demoting masters is the “solution", though some may, but promoting the outstanding teams is.

Come to think of it, the title of this thread is quite ridiculous. Don't bump those teams to ST, fix the system.

(02-19-2013 11:34 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  I think now is a good time to share this comic: http://xkcd.com/386/

Lets try to stay civil. I'm as guilty as anyone. Getting frustrated. But if we all take a break and come back, it'll be more productive.

Lol we shall continue this later

[alexjiang1]

(02-19-2013 11:43 AM)worldfamous Wrote:  I should've read GG's comic first. Good reminder of what an ass I can be.

Haha, I saw the old post, pressed quote and bam, this shows up. I had to press back to see if I was quoting right.
One clarification of me: Like I said, I am in no way threatened by the list expanding. My opinion is if you're good enough to get there, you will. Using Qwertiest as an example, when he got glitched a bunch of losses, and was demoted to gifted, he climbed back up because that's where his skill level is.

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Boiled down... GIVE US TOP 2v2 LIST

[Mr.Banger]

(02-19-2013 10:41 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 09:09 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 08:59 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 08:46 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote:  Where are y'all coming from that the masters skill level is barely lower than the STs?

Did you read? In my example I stated that there could be a large gap between ST and Master. I said that even if the gap is large between ST and Master, there is also a large gap within Master. Since we have a gap anyway, is it not better to utilize all our leagues available instead of just having one league for 2 teams? Let's say this:

*SNIP*

Even then there is still a large skill range in Master but it's less drastic since we are now utilizing the ST league to a greater extent.

Of course if you're really so set on not promoting anyone else to ST then we can just demote the bottom half of Masters to Gifted instead.

I never said I was set on not promoting anyone else to ST. I'm just wondering why there's all these complaints when it's clearly possible to get to ST...

I was replying to your statement that we're all saying there is a small gap between Master and ST which I just said wasn't the case... That was the point, addressing the statement you made which I quoted above, not saying that you didn't want anyone else promoted.

That part about not wanting anyone else promoted was added on the end as a separate thought. I said that in general if you (as in the general 'you' and not 'you' in particular) don't want promotion because you (again, this is the general 'you') feels there is a large gap between ST and Master, then this is a reason we should have promotions regardless (there is also a large gap in skill within Master).

Also I think you are missing the point entirely Mr.Banger. This isn't about people whining because they want to be promoted to ST despite not being good enough (well maybe it is for some people, but people like myself and GG couldn't care less about our 2v2 league). Rather, this is about league distribution and whether we should really have a league with only 2 teams. If you read the rest of my post (maybe you did, but if so you ignored the important part and only responded to what was most trivial), then you would see what I was trying to say. It is NOT about personal desires to be promoted, but rather about the grand scheme of leagues and distribution.

Points are absolutely WORTHLESS in determining skill. Sorry to be frank, but it's true. So, how then do we judge skill? In 1v1 we have the Top 200 for those of us high enough. However for the rest as well as EVERYONE in 2v2, the only way to judge relative ability is through leagues. However, there is a huge skill range amongst Masters players (even worse for those in leagues beneath). The fact that we are not utilizing ST league (2 teams only in an entire league) means that it's even harder to judge skill. Even in 1v1 there are issues especially in Fluffy and Clever (80% of all players), but also in Gifted which still has 15%. In 2v2 it's absolutely dreadful at the moment since we don't have a top 200 for the most competitive teams and for all intensive purposes don't even have a Super-Titan league. Instead we have 2 teams who may be better (are in ST) and then a few hundred teams in Master with no way to rank each other. If we at least had 10 or so teams in ST things would be slightly better. Ideally we'd just want a top 200 and then no one would care about ST anymore, but until then, why not fix the distribution?

League distribution is where we disagree. Like amofett, I believe ST should be a title/achievement for your hidden skill being above a certain threshold, not that we need to put a specific % of players in the ST league just because their aren't enough that got there.

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The only solution I see to this, is OML putting a top - chart WITH hidden skill shown, or else who knows the difference between 2-3

[myninja527]

The flawed logic comes from the fact that we don't even know how the hidden ranking system works. You all are arguing with incomplete information. Maybe some of those higher ranking masters should have a best of five with Alex and Banger if they lose 4, I'll concede that their is a discernible difference between the upper masters and the ST. 12:1 is a ridiculous ratio, but a lot of those wins came against inferior competition. All those teams top play each other and skew the ratios very close to 50/50 because the ONLY play against one another. My team loses 80% or so of the matches vs those best team and then get inferior competition within the masters league and rattle of 10-15 wins in a row. That elevates us back to the top and we lose all over again.

[Mr.Banger]

(02-19-2013 12:08 PM)myninja527 Wrote:  The flawed logic comes from the fact that we don't even know how the hidden ranking system works. You all are arguing with incomplete information. Maybe some of those higher ranking masters should have a best of five with Alex and Banger if they lose 4, I'll concede that their is a discernible difference between the upper masters and the ST. 12:1 is a ridiculous ratio, but a lot of those wins came against inferior competition. All those teams top play each other and skew the ratios very close to 50/50 because the ONLY play against one another. My team loses 80% or so of the matches vs those best team and then get inferior competition within the masters league and rattle of 10-15 wins in a row. That elevates us back to the top and we lose all over again.

How do we receive inferior competition? The only way that can happen is if our hidden skill is so high like p1noyboypj that we start getting paired with lower leagues. But fine, I'll list some names off the top of my head. WF 2-0, papikr and allynboballyn 3/4-0, Terence and awpertunity 3-2 (2-2 if friendly doesn't count), gurleyman and krogoth 2-0, p1noyboy and sir 2-1 That's off the top of my head, we just got some games with waymaniac and burndorods teams, we'll see how it goes

[GreatGonzales]

Quote:League distribution is where we disagree. Like amofett, I believe ST should be a title/achievement for your hidden skill being above a certain threshold, not that we need to put a specific % of players in the ST league just because their aren't enough that got there.
The only solution I see to this, is OML putting a top - chart WITH hidden skill shown, or else who knows the difference between 2-3

Banger, I just do not see how you are still saying this after I have directly addressed these issues.

I believe 2v2 ST SHOULD be a distinction and an honor. It should be a distinction and an honor as much as it is for 1v1. Currently, 2v2 ST is a higher distinction than 1v1, and as a result there are only 2 STs for 2v2. This has very little utility, and thus we are proposing a correction to the system so it is more in line with 1v1.

Understand?

Regarding showing the hidden skill rating along with the top ratings list, I don't see why this is necessary - 1v1 top lists do not have this feature and no one had ever complained.

[Mr.Banger]

(02-19-2013 12:13 PM)GreatGonzales Wrote:  

Quote:League distribution is where we disagree. Like amofett, I believe ST should be a title/achievement for your hidden skill being above a certain threshold, not that we need to put a specific % of players in the ST league just because their aren't enough that got there.
The only solution I see to this, is OML putting a top - chart WITH hidden skill shown, or else who knows the difference between 2-3

Banger, I just do not see how you are still saying this after I have directly addressed these issues.

I believe 2v2 ST SHOULD be a distinction and an honor. I

. Currently, 2v2 ST is a higher distinction than 1v1, and as a result there are only 2 STs for 2v2. This has very little utility, and this we are proposing a correction to the system.

Understand?

Regarding showing the hidden skill rating along with the top ratings list, I don't see why this is necessary - 1v1 top lists do not have this feature and no one had ever complained.
[/quote]

Showing the hidden skill rating in order to settle the debate on how close someone is to promotion.

[GreatGonzales]

Man it's hard to do all this writing on an iPhone. Please forgive my many typos.