Game balancing

[XixonDale]

I Dont agree on nerfing scallyways. Its just that Veggienauts needs a small buff, and mobi a small nerf.
The problem with veggienauts is that you can to easyly kill a whole network, by just killing the right barrier. In my opinion this should be changed to that aslong there stays a connection between the barriers and bramble the barriers stay alive, no matter who spwanned who first.

With mobi well, hit and run i Dont care, its the teleporting sniper that i find overpowerd. Being Able to instantly have the most immobile unit of the game to the frontlines, adding that its a ranged unit, combined with the rest you can use it for, is op in my opinion.
Perhaps make teleport Free, but no more sniper teleport.

Feedback, buff...
Maybe let brainwash count as a kill?

And Scallyways just have a oversized sniper. It cost 10 wits to spawn, fully buff it and place + unpack it. Unless you want it further. If you want te relocate it again, it cost 3 wits. For the rest its just a rock sitting there idle since your openent wil stay away, until he has a plan to kill it, or you.
But perhaps that you cant recieve more than 1 wit for killing atacks.

[Gf!sh]

Scrambling already counts as a kill

[PowerCrazy]

3hp per thorn is WAAAY too much of a buff. That change make's soldier too expensive to take out thorns with leaving only heavy's and snipers (and bombshells) as viable counters to thorn spam.

No one suggested that as a buff because it would be way too much. I fully expect that change to be rolled back soon.

[blckace]

(01-12-2013 05:48 AM)PowerCrazy Wrote:  3hp per thorn is WAAAY too much of a buff. That change make's soldier too expensive to take out thorns with leaving only heavy's and snipers (and bombshells) as viable counters to thorn spam.

No one suggested that as a buff because it would be way too much. I fully expect that change to be rolled back soon.

Agreed, if soldiers can't kill thorns, how is feedback supposed to deal with thorns?
And I don't think it will make much of a difference against scallywags and adorables

Here's a list of suggestions I sent to adam in a private message on 9th of December
1) spawning a thorn costs half a wit instead of a whole wit, or we have to figure a away that spawning them costs less than one wit or maybe one wit spawns two thorns
2) each turn someone damages a thorn to 1hp but doesn't kill it, the thorn will heal itself the next turn
3) I'm not sure about this but maybe relocating predeployed thorns

And a new idea
4) exploding thorns for 1damage when killed? or maybe when hit and not killed?

[.Memories.]

(01-12-2013 05:56 AM)blckace Wrote:  

(01-12-2013 05:48 AM)PowerCrazy Wrote:  3hp per thorn is WAAAY too much of a buff. That change make's soldier too expensive to take out thorns with leaving only heavy's and snipers (and bombshells) as viable counters to thorn spam.

No one suggested that as a buff because it would be way too much. I fully expect that change to be rolled back soon.

Agreed, if soldiers can't kill thorns, how is feedback supposed to deal with thorns?
And I don't think it will make much of a difference against scallywags and adorables

Here's a list of suggestions I sent to adam in a private message on 9th of December
1) spawning a thorn costs half a wit instead of a whole wit, or we have to figure a away that spawning them costs less than one wit or maybe one wit spawns two thorns
2) each turn someone damages a thorn to 1hp but doesn't kill it, the thorn will heal itself the next turn
3) I'm not sure about this but maybe relocating predeployed thorns

And a new idea
4) exploding thorns for 1damage when killed? or maybe when hit and not killed?

I like the idea of Thorns having some type of reaction damage. 1 damage is done to the attacking melee unit. This makes sense, considering thorns typically hurt when touched.

[Harti]

The change looks fairly balanced so far but is veeeeeeeeeeeeery annoying when it comes to early Brambles going to e.g. lock down your wit space on Thorn Gulley, or simply blocking your spawn space all the time. It makes such maneuvers viable at 3hp.

All I can say for now is that I got grilled twice and I should hate it and tell OML to revert it, but its just like with the +1 wit rule where I also made a big fuss about it and we're still keeping it. So I'm thinking of ways to abnormally exploit the 3hp thorns to show up some nasty tactics OML doesn't want in live play.
However, nothing of that has occurred yet.

[garcia1000]

Can beta testers also try out the regenerating thorns idea? i.e. 1HP thorns automatically heal back to 2HP at the start of your turn. Dunno if this would be enough, but it's in flavor and is a 'safe' change.

If you want to show the 3HP thorns is a bad idea, the more effective way is to show that it loses to Scallywags just as bad as before.

[.Memories.]

(01-12-2013 01:19 PM)Harti Wrote:  The change looks fairly balanced so far but is veeeeeeeeeeeeery annoying when it comes to early Brambles going to e.g. lock down your wit space on Thorn Gulley, or simply blocking your spawn space all the time. It makes such maneuvers viable at 3hp.

Does it seem overpowered at 3HP? Or just more balanced? Might be too soon to say, I suppose, but sounds like having a field full of 3HP thorns is a bit much.

[ImperialSun]

3 hp seems more balanced (I've seen some of the games).

I would like to try the regenerating idea though with thorns going back to 2 hp at the beginning of each veggie player's turn.

As for adorables, xixon, sniper moves aren't a problem at all. You can predict and attempt to defend appropriately against mobi sniper attacks. Hit and run on the other hand is a huge balance concern. Even if you know it's a possibility, unlike mobi sniper attacks, you often cannot prevent hit and run without giving up massive ground (and even then only delaying it for a turn). Hit and run is wit neutral if done correctly and gives the adorables player a unit advantage. In other words, that aspect of the adorables is broken while mobi sniper attacks are not.

[connor34911]

(01-13-2013 01:20 AM)ImperialSun Wrote:  3 hp seems more balanced (I've seen some of the games).

I would like to try the regenerating idea though with thorns going back to 2 hp at the beginning of each veggie player's turn.

As for adorables, xixon, sniper moves aren't a problem at all. You can predict and attempt to defend appropriately against mobi sniper attacks. Hit and run on the other hand is a huge balance concern. Even if you know it's a possibility, unlike mobi sniper attacks, you often cannot prevent hit and run without giving up massive ground (and even then only delaying it for a turn). Hit and run is wit neutral if done correctly and gives the adorables player a unit advantage. In other words, that aspect of the adorables is broken while mobi sniper attacks are not.

I'm honestly getting sick of this discussion. Maybe at the very upper levels of play it has some balance issues. But sorry it's preventing scally from turtle the hell out of everyone? Scally turtles with a wall of bombshells are probably the most annoying this in the game. Particularly on maps like peekaboo.

Additionally, spawning a mobi would technically put you behind in the unit count anyways.