Game balancing

**connor34911** · 01-08-2013, 04:31 AM

(01-08-2013 03:46 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: My thoughts on current balance:
1. Adorables/Feedback
3. Scallywags
4. Veggies

Scallywags were probably even or better than the other two pre-veggies, but I think with snipers and heavies being better because of new rules, they've lost a lot of their easy-to-win properties. Especially against adorables. Scallywags may not actually be worse, but we haven't learned how to utilize them in the new environment yet.

Feedback are really scary on small/midsized maps, a push with a scrambler behind is stupid good right now; this can probably be applied to sections of large maps too but I don't have enough experience to say either way.

I honestly think the original 3 specials are balanced. You're right about feedback. They are very hard to beat on glitch, SFI and peekaboo. It isn't as good on larger maps but I think that this is just something that happens with race selection.

=) Random Task (= · 01-08-2013, 09:36 AM

I think any change can only be seriously suggested after considering statistics covering the full population of players. I too have subjective feelings over certain specials being slightly OP or UP but honestly those impressions are totally subjective and true strength of each race changes dramatically with the playing style of the individual player behind.

spoboyle · 01-08-2013, 09:29 PM

(01-08-2013 04:31 AM)connor34911 Wrote:
(01-08-2013 03:46 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: My thoughts on current balance:
1. Adorables/Feedback
3. Scallywags
4. Veggies

Scallywags were probably even or better than the other two pre-veggies, but I think with snipers and heavies being better because of new rules, they've lost a lot of their easy-to-win properties. Especially against adorables. Scallywags may not actually be worse, but we haven't learned how to utilize them in the new environment yet.

Feedback are really scary on small/midsized maps, a push with a scrambler behind is stupid good right now; this can probably be applied to sections of large maps too but I don't have enough experience to say either way.

I honestly think the original 3 specials are balanced. You're right about feedback. They are very hard to beat on glitch, SFI and peekaboo. It isn't as good on larger maps but I think that this is just something that happens with race selection.

I must be doing something wrong these are probably my 3 worst maps with feedback!

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 01-09-2013 12:36 AM by Alvendor.)

So to summarize a bit people's main complaints with the original suggestion is that you take a way very important and interesting aspect of adorables play. I completely agree with the small note that much of what is taken away got introduced with the wit for kill mechanic. Their power will be more in line with before the update.

Others also question the logic of adjusting other races when the biggest problem are veggies. Also a fair complaint, if it was possible to fix veggies we can probably live with that feedback won't be possible to use if you want reach the absolute top in the rankings. But it is a big if, if its possible to fix veggies. To beat a good scallywags player you will need to kill bombshells, and I don't see how you will be able to do that from any buffs suggested to bramblers.

Finally to illustrate the problem (maybe I'm ruining a couple of games by writing this, but information wants to be free right?).
Autowin against feedback on Peekaboo:
* Get a boosted bombshell mid touching you base.
* Mass boosted soldiers and defend the bombshell.
* When you get enough wits get another bombshell and put it slightly more offense, just a tile or two.
* Never ever move a deployed bombshell, just create new one and put them further and further ahead.

Autowin on Glitch against feedback:
Having a bombshell in the middle is good but not the true OP position. That is the pocket touching your base 2 tiles from the spawn point. Put a bombshell there, mass boosted soldiers, never move deployed bombshell, just create new ones creeping further and further ahead.

Also, this is a very strong strategy on most maps with some changes. On Long Nine for example you need to scout to make sure your first bombshell goes down on the side the opponent invested most wits

**connor34911** · 01-09-2013, 02:25 AM

(01-09-2013 12:20 AM)Alvendor Wrote: So to summarize a bit people's main complaints with the original suggestion is that you take a way very important and interesting aspect of adorables play. I completely agree with the small note that much of what is taken away got introduced with the wit for kill mechanic. Their power will be more in line with before the update.

Others also question the logic of adjusting other races when the biggest problem are veggies. Also a fair complaint, if it was possible to fix veggies we can probably live with that feedback won't be possible to use if you want reach the absolute top in the rankings. But it is a big if, if its possible to fix veggies. To beat a good scallywags player you will need to kill bombshells, and I don't see how you will be able to do that from any buffs suggested to bramblers.

Finally to illustrate the problem (maybe I'm ruining a couple of games by writing this, but information wants to be free right?).
Autowin against feedback on Peekaboo:
* Get a boosted bombshell mid touching you base.
* Mass boosted soldiers and defend the bombshell.
* When you get enough wits get another bombshell and put it slightly more offense, just a tile or two.
* Never ever move a deployed bombshell, just create new one and put them further and further ahead.

Autowin on Glitch against feedback:
Having a bombshell in the middle is good but not the true OP position. That is the pocket touching your base 2 tiles from the spawn point. Put a bombshell there, mass boosted soldiers, never move deployed bombshell, just create new ones creeping further and further ahead.

Also, this is a very strong strategy on most maps with some changes. On Long Nine for example you need to scout to make sure your first bombshell goes down on the side the opponent invested most wits

Exactly...so the solution is nerfing adorables which will kill offense on a lot of maps and allow scallys to turtle people to death? I really don't get how scallys are complaining about mobi being op. Maybe they are just not realizing that they are overrated and need to play better?

ImperialSun · 01-09-2013, 02:35 AM

Don't get stuck in a rut. Adam and Alex have stated that the Scallywags are not actually OP. I've seen this in the past with Starcraft and I don't want it to happen here. People get the notion that something is OP. Everyone then beats the idea over and over until it becomes so engrained that even when it is revealed that the notion is false, people can't comprehend it.

Unless you think OML is lying.

I do think that people complaining mobi is OP are overreacting just as much, but many people are just saying that mobi is better post update (which is true), not OP.

burnodrod · 01-09-2013, 03:24 AM

(01-08-2013 04:01 AM)Harti Wrote: Specials back at 8, maybe? Less specials mean less team inbalance and more rewarding skillful wit management.

I suggest the feature: you can get any special, but it costs twice if it's not of your team! Smile

And another: discounts for wholesale!

**connor34911** · 01-09-2013, 03:48 AM

I think specials at 8 would help, but I kind of like them at 7. It makes the game much more interesting and each team unique.

blckace · 01-09-2013, 05:12 AM

(01-09-2013 12:20 AM)Alvendor Wrote: Also a fair complaint, if it was possible to fix veggies we can probably live with that feedback won't be possible to use if you want reach the absolute top in the rankings.

That's exactly how I feel, the specials balance is broken, there's no denying bombshell and mobi are overpowered, I've completely stopped playing league games, and probably won't consider playing anytime soon, I'm not saying it's impossible to win, I'm saying I feel disadvantaged and to win, I have to put in much more thought into my moves than another player just to compete, it takes the joy out of the game.

The bombshell power has been discussed extensively before. As for the mobi after the update the biggest problem is that it's wit efficiency is through the roof, the attack and pull back enables them to kill all kinds of units at a profit, before the +1 wit/kill update that was also true but it wasn't always wit efficient, however, now it's 100% wit efficient you won't be able to keep up, you'll be backed into a corner while the mobi picks off your units. If you don't believe me just check the super titan replay thread and OSN.

Necrocat219 · (06-09-2014 02:14 PM)

(01-07-2013 03:11 AM)burnodrod Wrote:
(01-06-2013 10:25 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: Aha! I completely forgot the +1 wit per kill only making it a major boost for the Mobi.

Really? I always thought that +1 wit per kill boosted mostly the bombshell. Since now it's the only unit that can EARN wits! Up to 5 wits per shoot earning

LOL

If OneManLeft announced that they were making a unit that could kill the base in one shot? Yeah, until they reveal that it has a movement of 1 and isn't a ranged unit. There are various ways you can take a look at a situation, but some situations just never get reached.

I'll just put my 2 cents in that I will be perfectly happy if Veggies get buffed and then nothing else happens. Be warned if you give my scrambler any advantages over the two most used races I will abuse that Wink

I'll just put my 2 cents in that I will be perfectly happy if Veggies get buffed and then nothing else happens. Be warned if you give my scrambler any advantages over the two most used races I will abuse that Wink