Game balancing

[ImperialSun]

That is certainly not true. Have you EVER seen a player move units into a formation like that against a bombshell especially post update? Not if they are ST or Master I assure you. The update was mostly helpful for Adorables. As necro said, players can easily predict where the Scallywag will get extra wits from the shell and decrease the bonus by not doing stupid moves like 6 runners in splash range. You can't really avoid the wit advantage the mobi gained from hit and run buff though... So overall the advantage to Scallywags can be much more readily avoided than the advantage to adorables.

[blckace]

http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/...20Y2s-FAgw

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Turn 50

[burnodrod]

(01-06-2013 09:39 PM)Alvendor Wrote:  I think bombshells and mobis currently are balanced enough against each other. So the suggestions are not for fixing anything between them, but helping feedback and veggies.

Isn't it a strange idea trying to help one race by fixing another? People don't use the Veggies because they don't lke them! And it has nothing to do with other races. As for me, I hardly can find any use from Bramble playing with a strong opponent who doesn't spawn supers at all. So, if you "fix" the Adorables to be less strong it won't make me play Veggies. I won't use supers than, that's all.

So, what has to be fixed is that damn plant!
Firstly, all this system with parent and child thorns is too complicated for a novices. You need to get rid of it. Do you really think people want to remember who is whose child among all of the thorns? Sons, fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers...

Secondly, one wit per useless thorn is too expensive! It should cost 50cent (0.5 wit)!

[laYahooz]

To broaden the view of this thread, do you 2v2ers reckon that Alvenders nerfs would change 2v2 trastically? (e.g less usage of the mobi + bomshell combo).

[Katastrophe]

I really think the regenerating Thorn idea mixed with the ability to uproot, move, and root in a single turn would really be a significant buff to Veggienauts that would make them far more viable in VvS and have little to no effect in any other matchup.

Also, Scramblers should not be able to scramble individual thorns. Thorns are plants... they have no brain to scramble.

[Admiral 77]

Playing against all the teams is part of the strategy. If you think one team is the best, play as them... The teams are very well balanced overall.

[terenceshiu2005]

(01-07-2013 03:11 AM)burnodrod Wrote:  

(01-06-2013 10:25 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote:  Aha! I completely forgot the +1 wit per kill only making it a major boost for the Mobi.

Really? I always thought that +1 wit per kill boosted mostly the bombshell. Since now it's the only unit that can EARN wits! Up to 5 wits per shoot earning

Nice work! your benefit is not only earn 5 wits in this case. 12 wits damage of your opponent should be included. lol

[ImperialSun]

(01-07-2013 03:30 AM)blckace Wrote:  http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/...20Y2s-FAgw

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Turn 50

I've seen that replay and that move cost him the game. Point in case, no good player will allow that to happen for the very reason seen in this game. That was around when the new rule came out so p1noyboypj must not have adapted at that point. What necrocat and I were saying earlier is that it is much easier to predict and avoid letting 5 units die to one bombshell shot (in fact that didn't even occur in that replay) then it is to avoid getting hit and run by a mobi player. Hit and run was almost never cost efficient before (as Alvendor has also stated) but now it is usually wit neutral and puts the mobi user ahead on unit count. The extra wits from bombshell splash by contrast does not come into play as often because you don't usually kill more than 2 units with one bombshell shot. This does make the shell a bit better as I did say previously, but not as drastically as the mobi buff which makes EVERY hit and run tactic more effective. As necrocat stated it is also harder to avoid getting hit and run than it is to not let 3 of your guys get killed by a bombshell shot.

[aaronINdayton]

My thoughts on current balance:
1. Adorables/Feedback
3. Scallywags
4. Veggies

Scallywags were probably even or better than the other two pre-veggies, but I think with snipers and heavies being better because of new rules, they've lost a lot of their easy-to-win properties. Especially against adorables. Scallywags may not actually be worse, but we haven't learned how to utilize them in the new environment yet.

Feedback are really scary on small/midsized maps, a push with a scrambler behind is stupid good right now; this can probably be applied to sections of large maps too but I don't have enough experience to say either way.

[Harti]

So some of you are rather considering the wit for kill rule responsible for the dilemma, am I not right? Let's look closer into that. It has caused major imbalances in games, we were confused, and right now is the time we note that the change has also shifted balance towards Mobi a bit.

We need to take into account that this is most likely only the case because due to the nature we're getting wits for kills we needn't stockpile wits over turns in order to get a special out, let alone to perform a massive wave of attacks within a single turn. Mobi does quite the good job to apply lots of pressure by simply saying "You can go wherever you want, I'll get you anyway".

I welcome the wit for kill rule as it makes attacking blindly easily counterable. Also it punishes positioning mistakes to the max. But there needs to be some kind of tweak. Specials back at 8, maybe? Less specials mean less team inbalance and more rewarding skillful wit management.