The New Rules (and why I'm not a Fan)

[Harti]

Thank you for this thread.

Just thank you.

Really.

[garcia1000]

(11-22-2012 06:33 PM)worldfamous Wrote:  According to OML, it was highest in fluffy. 65% P1 win.

Statistics, bah!

[yury119192]

Agree with Vuvuzaela regarding the consequences of the +1wit changes. It seems (I have played just few games with new rules, therefore it is just my initial observation) that now attacker has really big advantage to defender, that certainly will help to avoid turtuling, but at the same time it may ruin the strategical charm of the game.

[garcia1000]

My preliminary opinion is that neither attack nor defender benefits from the wit change. However, the swings are bigger now. Some people might see that as more "exciting" or something.

[oneadamleft]

(11-22-2012 06:44 PM)garcia1000 Wrote:  Statistics, bah!

We'll be using statistics after a week or so of the new rules to see if anything needs changing for balance.

As far as FTA, our stats for the beta users had it much closer to 50/50, none of that 60/40 BS we were seeing on the live servers. We'll be looking closely at that and special unit win rates to see how bramble is faring.

[Phillip]

Making dumb mistakes kills you quicker now it seems. I only partially agree with his stance on the runner. Before spawning a runner was throwing away 1 wit for scouting. Now it is 2. Seems like runners should never be spawned.

Overall, you can't evaluate things in the wild after on,y a few days. Players learn different tactics overtime. Right now a lot of players are playing veggie, but have no idea what to do. They waste 5 wits on thorns and they get them wiped out with one attack.

[Alvendor]

Interesting thread. I agree with some of the points. Before the update I was valuing all units in wits most of the time. It was enough for me to get a 1-2 wit advantage and I could usually snowball that lead into a win. Now it is not so easy to value units anymore as what they are worth seems to depend a lot more on how easy the opponent can kill them. This together with wit for kill makes it hard to calculate several moves ahead. If this is a good or bad thing I guess is up to personal preference...

Runners role have change drastically. Before the update it was always a good idea to have good vision. Now you have a tough choice in if you want to scout a lot of the map or if you want to make your army stronger. I like that mechanic.

Attackers initiative have already been explained good. If you attack first you can get an advantage in number of units so that promotes offense. But there are other things going on as well. Runners are weak now and they were used a lot in attacks before the update. Attackers will probably need to use boosted soldiers while defenders can get away with unboosted ones. So this gives an advantage to the defender. Which of these forces are stronger, I truly don't know. Maybe it is as Garcia guesses, they cancel each other out?

From what I seen, the move initiative is not for p1 or p2 but varies between them depending on map and strategy. Imagine a map where you need more than 5 wits to take the wit tiles and move out with a unit that will be part of the rush. In that case move initiative goes to p2...

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(11-23-2012 12:10 AM)oneadamleft Wrote:  

(11-22-2012 06:44 PM)garcia1000 Wrote:  Statistics, bah!

We'll be using statistics after a week or so of the new rules to see if anything needs changing for balance.

As far as FTA, our stats for the beta users had it much closer to 50/50, none of that 60/40 BS we were seeing on the live servers. We'll be looking closely at that and special unit win rates to see how bramble is faring.

If brambles perform slightly worse you probably have a good balance as ppl will not know how to play them yet.

[blckace]

The +1 for kill isn't for the attacker only which means the defender can pull feats of strength he wouldn't have been able to before patch with much less preparation, even against well executed attacks

So here are some thoughts:

1) wit space pressure and generally wit pressure isn't as viable as before but I still use it to some extent
2) all out attacks means all your units will be wiped out, so planning around that is a good idea
3) scouts are not as bad as everyone is saying, it generally means you have to be very careful positioning them and defending them. Why not bad? because any scout that gets killed, leaves behind an enemy unit for you to kill, and the +1 wit your opponent gains isn't going anywhere. The only case where that isn't true is maybe against the mobi
4) buffed soldiers value go up only as the game progresses and like Alvendor said near the opponents spawn points
5) the biggest change to the game is wit counting, it's no longer possible to count wits and predict moves unless you are a master jedi, so now you can just guess in which direction they are heading

[Jacs9]

Best Quite of the day for me...' Unless you are a Jedi Master'

I wish I am Jedi Master.

[ChamomileMF]

Vuvu, although I agree with your sentiment, your soldier scenario is somewhat flawed.
You said that p1 with 2 soldiers attacks and kills 1 of 2 p2 soldiers. P2 then has 8 wits and spawns a sniper and kills one of p1's soldiers.

In no map can p1 actually move across and attack/kill anything on the first turn. I'm fairly certain OML made certain of this. You can move ahead and spawn reinforcements, but not attack anything. P2 can then respond by either shoring up defenses or counter attack with starting units.

Last notes: before the update I could tell the beginning players when they spawned a heavy. With the update, tactics will change and I suspect we will see a lot more heavies in use due to their durability.
As for runners, we used to stick them in front of soldiers to waste opponents wits. They no longer can fill that roll but instead must be in the back of the advancing wall