Outwitters WORLD CUP Winner - Alvendor (SWEDEN)

[Thrutchy]

Here are the reason I like the Swiss format:
* everyone stays involved during the whole tournament
* gives a reasonable ranking for all players involved rather than just one winner that single elimination gives
* similarly skilled players play each other in each round. Using ranking/points/wins from leagues can be used for initial ordering. Compare this with single elimination where the seeded best plays the seeded worst in the first round.
* handles a non-power-of-2 number of player, but an even number of players is better
* can handle people dropping out
* tie breakers (which affects game-play) can be avoided
* about the same number of rounds as single elimination (but a lot more overall games)

[CombatEX]

*bump* forum bug

[CombatEX]

Once the FTA fix is implemented (likely before the next tournament/world cup), the World Cup format should be fine.

Two things though:

1. Who goes first shouldn't matter. In the elimination stages we should have players play more games. Just an example, but something like RO16: BO3, RO8: BO3, RO4: BO3, Semi: BO5, Final: BO7. This would make the winner really have to work for the victory instead of just getting a lucky win over a better player (and this is kind of like how GSL does it which is the most prestigious tournament in SC2).

2. People lose interest in tournaments in the later stages... which is the opposite of how it should be. This is likely due to the fact that Outwitters isn't a 'spectator sport'. You can only watch the games when someone eventually uploads a replay after the fact. In the mean time there's no use commenting on the thread. =/

Especially if we make players play more games in elimination round (as I'm suggesting for future tournaments) this will be even more the case as the thread gets buried due to lack of people commenting for a longer period of time. We should sticky this and future major tournaments to help bring up the hype and make it easy to check the standings. Having a strong competitive scene would really help Outwitters in the long run by retaining old players and may attract new players too. Actually, a lot of games like this have a subforum for tournaments so if OML doesn't want to clutter the stickied threads section they can make a tournament sub-forum.

[phrenikos]

(10-15-2012 04:55 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  Especially if we make players play more games in elimination round (as I'm suggesting for future tournaments) this will be even more the case as the thread gets buried due to lack of people commenting for a longer period of time. We should sticky this and future major tournaments to help bring up the hype and make it easy to check the standings. Having a strong competitive scene would really help Outwitters in the long run by retaining old players and may attract new players too. Actually, a lot of games like this have a subforum for tournaments so if OML doesn't want to clutter the stickied threads section they can make a tournament sub-forum.

+1

[Samura|]

P1 p1noyboypj
P2 samura|
samura|
20 turns (p1noy resigned)
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Ytv-9AQw

Similar start to the game as for my P1 game, with p1noy taking out my medic and runners early. I got a bombshell out in turn 12, then launched a small scouting attack the next turn to take out his runner at the same time. Stealth was the key to this game, allowing me to take out his sniper and scrambler (and his second scrambler had I been allowed to play out my next turn). Would have liked to play out this game but p1noy resigned after taking turn 19, to free up space in his queue. Being in a position to take out his scrambler, heavy and a soldier on my next turn, I feel I had gained a strong unit and wit advantage but closing out the game would still have been a challenge.

[awpertunity]

(10-15-2012 04:55 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  2. People lose interest in tournaments in the later stages... which is the opposite of how it should be. This is likely due to the fact that Outwitters isn't a 'spectator sport'. You can only watch the games when someone eventually uploads a replay after the fact. In the mean time there's no use commenting on the thread. =/

Yeah, this is a shame. We just need day9 to cast our games for us... :]

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(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  Here are the reason I like the Swiss format:
* gives a reasonable ranking for all players involved rather than just one winner that single elimination gives

Yes, everybody would get a "rank" in the tournament in the end, but I'm pretty sure the ones near the middle aren't very accurate of where they actually stand skill-wise.

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  * similarly skilled players play each other in each round. Using ranking/points/wins from leagues can be used for initial ordering. Compare this with single elimination where the seeded best plays the seeded worst in the first round.
* about the same number of rounds as single elimination (but a lot more overall games)

The problem with this is that the tournament will take significantly longer to finish. And the fact that there is no climactic game makes it feel more like a league rather than a tournament. For example it is very possible for the winner of the "tournament" to be decided before all rounds have even been played.

It will take a lot longer because in each round, we must wait for all other matches to be finished before pairings for the next round can be announced.

I think the Group Play we did here was a nice balance, it guaranteed everyone a least 6 games, all in one "round" since all 6 games were played simultaneously.

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  * tie breakers (which affects game-play) can be avoided

How's that?

[Eijolend]

(10-15-2012 05:53 PM)awpertunity Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 02:49 AM)Thrutchy Wrote:  * tie breakers (which affects game-play) can be avoided

How's that?

I think what Thrutchy means is, that you can have tiebreakers that only rely on win-loss and not some additional criteria (i.e. turns taken).

[blckace]

Can i start my game with samurai already?

[garcia1000]

(10-15-2012 05:25 PM)Samura| Wrote:  P1 p1noyboypj
P2 samura|
samura|
20 turns (p1noy resigned)
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Ytv-9AQw

Similar start to the game as for my P1 game, with p1noy taking out my medic and runners early. I got a bombshell out in turn 12, then launched a small scouting attack the next turn to take out his runner at the same time. Stealth was the key to this game, allowing me to take out his sniper and scrambler (and his second scrambler had I been allowed to play out my next turn). Would have liked to play out this game but p1noy resigned after taking turn 19, to free up space in his queue. Being in a position to take out his scrambler, heavy and a soldier on my next turn, I feel I had gained a strong unit and wit advantage but closing out the game would still have been a challenge.

How did you know his scrambler would be there? It was never in scouting range of anything

[Samura|]

From my turn 14 attack, my runner (that took out his runner) spotted it