Bombshell Turtling - Balancing Suggestion

[Ravernoth]

(10-07-2012 03:21 PM)vivafringe Wrote:  Bombshells play great (as a defensive player I find them super fun), and bombshell vs. bombshell fights are easily the deepest, most fun thing about the game for me. So I would much rather buff the other races than mess around with bombshell itself.

(10-07-2012 10:36 AM)Butternut22 Wrote:  I think what should happen is that a bombshell can only attack if it directly hits a target. This way, it cannot fire at a hex with no unit on it three hexes away and do splash damage right behind it. The only way it would be able to attack is to directly hit a unit. Would this work maybe?

This is a monster nerf and would make the race really bad.

Yes good point, this targeting change or the "1 unit limit" change would reduce the fun of using bombshells, and we don't want that.

My reasoning with a 2 wit attack is that it most cases it would only be an adjustment of 1 wit per shot, so usually 3-6 wits spread out over the course of a match.

Bombshell play would remain much the same, and it would not affect bombshell v bombshell battles much.


(Edit: Having said that, it might make it too costly for whittling away enemy hitpoints, so perhaps it would affect bombshell play too much. An alternative would be to keep the 1 wit cost, but reduce the direct hit damage to 2.)

(10-07-2012 07:06 PM)CombatEX Wrote:  I agree with vivafringe. I really like the way the bombshell currently works and it makes SvS an interesting matchup in its current state. If the bombshell really is 'too good' as it is, then I'd rather have the other specials buff. Ultimately though, why isn't anyone commenting on map balancing?

Why comment on all these arbitrary fixes when we don't even have the stats to backup the idea that the bombshell is 'OP' overall? As Syvan pointed out, different specials will be better than others on a map by map basis. Balancing the maps would be a much better approach than trying to adjust stats on the specials. Why? Because changing the bombshell stats will make it worse on all maps. This may make it more even on certain maps, but it could also make it subpar on others. Rather than adjusting the stats, just adjust the map pool.

Balance maps based on match-up statistics instead of arbitrary unit nerfs hoping to solve some unverified problem.

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(10-07-2012 08:54 AM)Ravernoth Wrote:  Adorables and Feedback, if they do hold an advantage on large maps, don't hold it to the same degree.

Speculation. Where are your stats? You don't have any. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but really, I just don't like the idea of claiming things are too good or too bad without stats. Probably this is a result of my experience with SC2. There is so much whining about Terran OP, Protoss OP, Zerg OP, etc. But when it comes down to it, the stats show the game is very nearly balanced (sc2statistics). Sometimes the meta will shift towards a certain team for a while, but then the slightly disadvantaged race will figure out how to counter it.

So, what do we need before balance changes?

1. STATS. Speculation without anything concrete to back it up is what ruins battle.net forums, youtube comments on sc2 videos, sc2 stream chats, ingame chat, etc. Pretty much half of the discussion involving SC2. Whine whine whine with nothing to back it up.
2. TIME. Even if the stats favor one race (or team in Outwitters), give players of the disadvantaged race some time to develop a proper counter. If, after a sufficient amount of time has passed, no counter is devised, then we can discuss how to fix the issue.

But stats first, then some period of time if stats confirm there is indeed an issue.

Fair points Combatex. No whining intended I've got nothing against bombshells myself - I like the unit, but I thought that there was general agreement among STs that an adjustment was needed, however from the responses so far it seems I may have been mistaken.

I would agree with waiting for more evidence that balancing is needed.

Re: map balancing, I'm not sure OML has the resources to do this for each unit and map. There are 6 maps now, and there will be 8 soon, and 4 special units. Plus since the bombshell is an area control unit, I'm not sure what you can do to a small map to help balance things when it's the size itself that's the problem.