Bramble v3

[PowerCrazy]

(03-18-2013 07:02 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  I agree with OML's statement that defensive strategies tend to lag behind any metagame changes. As such, keep in mind that the following is just a suggestion based on preliminary analysis provided by others as well as what I've witnessed in replays and my own games. We certainly should consider the proper changes to test carefully, and I am by no means suggesting this is a definitive fix. Especially given the fact that OML has access to the live server data, they will be able to make a more informed decision.

That being said, here is how I see it. Veggienauts have an advantage against Adorables and likely Feedback. Against Scallywags, Veggienauts *may* still be disadvantaged. Assuming Veggienauts > Adorables, Veggienauts > Feedback, Scallywags > Veggienauts, then here is a suggestion.

Overview
Thorn HP: 3 → 2
Wits for killing thorns: +1 → 0
Other: Thorns return to 2 HP at the beginning of each turn (unless the thorn is at 3 HP from being buffed)

Veggienauts vs Adorables/Feedback
Thorn HP: 3 → 2. Why? The main problem with fighting the Veggienauts is that they effectively have more spawn spaces than their opponent. A Veggienaut player can overwhelm his/her opponent with thorns. Each turn you can make many thorns, but your opponent has to use up an attack to kill each one (well, you can kill a parent, but the idea is if the Veggienaut player is smart s/he can spawn more thorns than you can kill). Essentially your opponent is spending their attacks to clear away thorns and doesn't have enough 'attack actions' to deal with your actual units. Lowering thorn hp to 2 will allow your opponent to make more units more cost efficiently (soldiers) that can deal with the thorns. This should help prevent Adorables and Feedback from becoming swamped by a ton of thorns. But won't this make Veggienauts worse against Scallywags which is the opposite of what we want?

Veggienauts vs Scallywags
The second change is removing wits from killing thorns and making thorns return to 2 hp at the beginning of each turn. This decreases the wits a Scallywag player gets from killing a clump of thorns with a bombshell and makes thorns less susceptible to splash damage on subsequent turns of shelling. It is a slight buff against Adorables and Feedback too, but the nerf to 2 hp should outweigh this dramatically. The fact that soldiers can be used to deal with thorns is huge. This type of buff to Veggienauts (regenerating thorns) also helps Feedback as it makes scrambling thorns more viable (since the thorn will return to 2 hp on the opponent's turn).

Nice post. And honestly, the original bramble was fine. It required a bit of care to use it properly, but other than vs Bombshells it had a lot of "niceties" that other race specials didn't have. Map Control and wit tile harassment being huge ones.

I would like to see the current bramble stay but only 2hp thorns, and no wit for kill, regenerating thorns would be nice too for anti-bombshell defense.