The New Point System
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02-22-2013, 09:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2013 10:18 AM by CombatEX.)
Post: #43
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RE: The New Point System
(02-22-2013 07:38 AM)phineas94 Wrote: So what do people think of the new point system? After a quick skim through OSN (I love that site!) it seems that in most divisions there isn't a runaway leader (especially if you discount players who have been recently promoted, who I think should start in their newly promoted division on 0 points or at least in the lower order) as feared by those voicing their concerns about activity points. I know I'm not nearly as active as the top 2 in my division but I still remain hopeful that I can pip them to the post - probably won't though I still find the previous system the best thus far. Eijolend commented that it only really showed who was improving and not really who was currently the best. However, though non-ideal, I still feel it is better than activity points. The players who are improving will tend to end up at better hidden-rating than the players who are not as time progresses (within a league especially).* At any rate, it's certainly better than the current system which favors activity. Have things improved in the past 2 weeks? Let's take a look. *The main issue is that players started at 0 so it was easy to end up back at 0. If we go back to the old system at some point players should start at 1000 or some similar number. (02-07-2013 12:40 PM)CombatEX Wrote: Top 8 by True Skill (points in parentheses) Here is what it is now: Top 10 by True Skill (points in parentheses) 1. poweewee (345) 2. joelduque (115) 3. Alvendor (48) 4. Terenceshiu2005 (38) 5. burnodrod (621) 6. pokhs (24) 7. garcia10000 (106) 8. LER4T (216) 9. blueswimmer95 (85) 10. el*tabasco (0) Average points across top 10 players in true skill now: 159.8 Average points across top 8 players in true skill 2 weeks ago: 139.625 Top 10 by Points (true skill rank in parentheses) 1. bunbum2442 (22) 2. burnodrod (5) 3. awpertunity (13) 4. exzachtlee (37) 5. mastercaster (17) 6. willythewile (92) 7. Porceveer (71) 8. pharmafan (26) 9. niwlehn (31) 10. kingtomi13 (48) Average rank across top 10 players in points: 36.2 Average rank across top 8 players in points 2 weeks ago: 32.625 Ideally we want this to be: 5 (for top 10) So what has changed? Overall points have gone up while the skill represented by points has not. In fact, the true skill of the top players based on points has actually decreased (~33rd to 36th true skill). This means that at least at the top level the new point system isn't becoming any more reflective of skill. In fact, you even have the 92nd ranked player in true skill all the way up at 6th in points. Also notice the 71st ranked player in true skill is 7th in points. The system doesn't seem to be effective at least at least in Super-Titan. I understand that this is only part of the picture, but it's something to consider. That combined with the fact that you still gain many more points for a win than a loss doesn't look very promising. I gathered all this data listed above, but really it isn't even necessary. Common sense dictates that with the way points are currently given, they will favor activity greatly over skill. (02-03-2013 06:09 AM)phineas94 Wrote:(02-02-2013 01:27 AM)CombatEX Wrote: Or is this just another idea directed towards OML? I do not appreciate "how offensive [it] sounds". How could asking if you were presenting an idea to OML as opposed to responding to an earlier post possibly be offensive? I had to sit back and think about it for a few minutes, but I think I *might* have figured it out. Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps you read my comment with emphasis on *just* as if I were disregarding your statement as something trivial in an 'eye-roll' kind of way. In actuality I included 'just' as a simple denominator of contrast. In other words, I was asking a question with the following possibilities: A. your post was directed at a particular post in the thread with the intention of addressing a statement the poster made OR B. your post was just an idea in general that you hoped OML would read You see how 'just' in this context isn't meant to trivialize your idea at all. Rather, "just an idea in general" as opposed to "a targeted response towards an earlier post". I'm sorry you found it offensive as that was no where near my intention. Here is my statement in full context CombatEX Wrote:What/who are you responding to? Or is this just another idea directed towards OML? Specifically I wasn't sure if you were trying to respond to something I had said previously or if you were just speaking generally. If you were talking to me, I wanted to respond to you accordingly, but if you were just presenting a new idea then I didn't have anything specifically to respond to. Again, notice the *just* in each of those sentences. They are not meant to have a negative connotation. Looking at this again, perhaps *another* was the word you had a problem with? Here I just meant 'another' as in an 'additional' idea since you had already shared some ideas previously and this was a new one. (02-03-2013 06:09 AM)phineas94 Wrote:(02-03-2013 02:29 AM)RandyDogz Wrote: As a developer, I'd want to make the people playing my game a lot feel good about how they are doing! Activity based points encourages players to play the game, rather than sitting and thinking about the game in fear that one wrong move will drop them back to the bottom of the league. That's sorta how I was feeling under the old system. To this extreme, this could frustrate people enough to quit the game. I think this can do exactly the opposite. Activity based points discourages players too. I've said this before in great detail, so I won't do so again, but here is the essence of the idea (or you can try to find my post where I explain it more completely). Only a few people in each division who play Outwitters religiously will ever have hope of reaching the top in points. This is rather discouraging for casual players who have no chance of reaching the top with activity based points. No matter how skilled you are, if you don't play enough you have no chance of reaching the top. I'd be far more encouraged to play with skill points over activity points because I'd know I don't need to play a bunch to get to the top.* There is also another issue which is the unintuitive nature of activity points. Players assume that when they are ranked highly in their division (which is due to points), that they are getting close to promotion. Really this means nothing of the sort. It can be frustrating for such a player to be Rank 1 (2,3,4,etc any high rank) and yet never be promoted (because in actuality their true skill isn't even close to promotion). In fact, these players can even be demoted. Frustrating and unintuitive. A bad mix. Conversely, you can have a player who is in the middle or lower half of their division and who gets discouraged as a result. A low ranked player by points may even fear demotion and become demoralized. In actuality this player could be nearing promotion or at least improving. These are just a few of the reasons I dislike activity points. *Note that none of this actually affects me since I have the top 200 list to refer to when I want to see my true skill or the true skill of my opponents. This means that my interest in 'fixing' the point system is purely for the benefit of the player-base as a whole and does not concern me from a personal standpoint. However, back in the original system before I had reached the top 200 I felt the burden of activity points full force. I knew that they didn't really matter, but it was still discouraging seeing players with 1000+ points and knowing that I could never catchup unless I started queuing up a ton of games. I didn't really care though because I also knew these points were absolutely meaningless =P ![[Image: supertitanreplay.png]](http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5016/supertitanreplay.png)
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