Unit Pricing

[stevewastaken]

(07-09-2012 02:29 PM)Szei Wrote:  Actually I think my point still stands. By the end of turn 14 josue has a massive advantage. They've both had 7 turns but josue's army value is 11 while his opponent's is a mere 5. You'll notice that his opponent's scout to other unit ratio to this point is 9-2 while josue's is 5-2.

I'm not sure what you are counting. It certainly isn't units produced, because I just recounted. Josue starts with a ratio of 6-1, which is even more runner heavy than the overall average.

Is this on-board units? That is a misleading way to view the board, because the player doesn't choose the units he starts with. In fact, I have a very good feeling OML designed it this way because if not given these units for free, the only units produced would be runners. Because a runner rush would most effectively be countered by mass runners. So instead of reducing the power of runners, they just handed out some free units to prevent all-out runner chaos (a mistake in my opinion).

(07-09-2012 02:29 PM)Szei Wrote:  His opponent went much more scout heavy and it cost him. Not only is he already way down in army supply due to his reliance on cost inefficient scout play but he also isn't able to bank as many wits.

No, his opponent lost because he used his runners less effectively. Several of Cani's runners move up the board without even getting an attack off. Like I point out before, Cani uses almost the exact same ratio to Runner:Other that Josue used. Cani made more units overall because he had to spend wits replacing lost units while Josue pushed up the board.

(07-09-2012 02:29 PM)Szei Wrote:  Scouts aren't too good!

They are good early because you need to see the board and medics and snipers havn't had time to move into protective formations.

They are good mid game because you can build them while also attacking with your starter units.

They are good late game because combat can leave even big units at 1 HP. Also scouts are the only units who can cross the board in time to actually support an enemy base assault.

Scouts are freakin' good.

(07-10-2012 12:18 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  Selective reading much? Scout's do not comprise 70%+ of the actual game. Once one player has gotten way ahead then the number of scouts made skyrockets, but for the actual part of the game before one person essentially has won, the fraction of scouts isn't that outrageous. The thing is, like in the supertitan game, the ratio of scouts to other units josue made was only 5-2

Again, I'm not sure what game you guys were watching. Josue starts 6-1 runners-other.

(07-10-2012 12:18 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  (keep in mind his opponent made 9 scouts so at least 1 or 2 of josue's scouts were made in retaliation. Really josue probably would have made something like 4-3 or 4-2 if not for his opponent overmaking NINE scouts).

This is a big part of the problem. The runner is the perfect counter to 4 unit types (runner, medic, sniper, special), while the only counter to runners is more runners.

(07-10-2012 12:18 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  The thing is, after josue got really far ahead by turn 14 or so, then the number of scouts made from that point spirals.

The example we are drawing from does not support this view. In fact, it is late game when both players pull out their special units, and Josue uses his Mobi to yank forward snipers.

You know what Cani could have done to counter the Mobi/Sniper combo? ...More runners.

(07-10-2012 12:18 AM)CombatEX Wrote:  The units on the field are more important than the units being made because that reflects what is actually being used.

Actually, units on the field means very little. I've played games where I was given a free sniper or medic, and never used a single Wit on them.

Production might not be the be-all-end-all, but it does show you what the player values most. If you like, you could attempt to tally up the damage, healing, kills, vision provided, bonus spaces taken, and base damage delt... but not all of those things are equal in value, and therefore it's extremely prone to bias. However, I suspect all but a few of those stats would heavily favor runners.