Season 2 leagues: Seems we're now getting the point(s)

[CombatEX]

(12-15-2012 05:39 AM)bmike Wrote:  Even though it's confusing - it seems to be working to sort players more aggressively into win/loss profiles.

It's also showing that some really strong players were stuck quite low so there is a lot of movement. In the leagues I'm in - no one has more than 25 points and more than 2/3 of the division sits at 0 visible points. Even when I win and get +22 league points, I might only show 5 to 8 net points and the position ranking shown in the win dialog is already outdated 10 seconds later as I check the league and I'm another 5 or so places off when the system processed the game results to show me the points spread after a game ends.

For some reason a lot of you seem to think that this system is working as intended despite Alex posting in response to how many points are being awarded:

(12-14-2012 06:52 AM)onealexleft Wrote:  This shouldn't be the case, so any more detailed info and/or screenshots would be helpful in tracking this down.

Anyway, if it is working, then there is a huge problem. Yesterday I was 5-1 with 7 points. But one of my friends was 1-1 with 6 points. Since you don't get any points for a win once you've hit some barrier, it's not a very good assessment of skill. I imagine I hit my limit for maximum point gain in a period of time so that's why I didn't get any points for my last 2 wins. If this is true, then it means I could have been 10-1 with 7 points and someone else could have gone 1-10 with 7 points as long as they lost their first 10 games and won the last one.

At any rate, even if the hypothetical situation isn't true, I think we can agree that a 5-1 record should be more than 1 point better than a 1-1 record.

How I *think* Outwitters works
There is a pool of points which you can earn by winning. This pool increases with time. When the pool is empty, you don't get more points for a win. This would explain why some people get 0 points for winning after reaching a certain point total and is why I guess this is how the system works. It is just an educated guess though so keep that in mind.

PROS:

• Controls inflation and allows latecomers to catchup.
  

CONS:

• A player with a 100-0 record can have the same number of points as someone with a 60-30 record if they pool has only grown big enough to award points for a relatively low number of wins like 30 or 40.
  

Again, this is just speculation, but if this is how the system works it has a HUGE flaw. The 100-0 player should be ranked miles ahead of the 60-30 player but could end up being even.

How Starcraft 2 does it
Starcraft 2 also uses a pool system (assuming OML does use one). However, the difference is that instead of only awarding players out of the pool, players always win points even when the pool is empty. How does this work? The pool accumulates points over time (as I expect is the case in Outwitters), and then when you win, you get points for the win PLUS an equal number of points from the pool. When the pool is empty, you therefore still get points for the win, just not any bonus points from the pool.

PROS:

• Players get points no matter what so if you have a 100-0 record you'll have more points than someone with a 50-0 record. This makes sense. In the other system both players would have the same rating. In fact, as stated above, the latter player could even have the same rating with something like a 50-25 record.
• Inflation is still controlled because players with an equal win/loss percentage will end up with similar point ratings even if one player joins late as long as that player has depleted the bonus pool. This is because once bonus pool is depleted, win and loss point totals are balanced so if you win half your games and lose half you games you'll have a net 0 gain from win/loss but have points equal to the current bonus pool. Essentially a 50-50 record means you have points equal to the bonus pool.
  

CONS:

• I can't really think of any cons that don't already exist in the other system.
  

Summary
Starcraft 2

• Players with a 50/50 record will have points equal to the current bonus pool
• Players above a 50/50 record will have more points than the current bonus pool
• Players below a 50/50 record will have fewer points than the current bonus pool
  

Looks good!

Outwitters (theorized system)

• Players with a 50/50 record may have the maximum pool points
• Players with above a 50/50 record may have the maximum pool points
• Players with below a 50/50 record may have the maximum pool points
  

Hm... something about this doesn't look right.

DISCLAIMER: If I'm completely wrong about how the Outwitters system works, then treat this as advocating for why Blizzard's bonus pool system is worth considering.