"Heavy" isn't worth the costs

[pookywb]

Interesting idea. I like it! Not so sure it'd be balanced though.

[CommandConquerer]

(08-22-2012 05:47 PM)Cookie Wrote:  

(08-22-2012 03:55 PM)Outwitted Wrote:  I had this idea come to me in a dream.

Make the heavies better by making them unique per team.

Fish: sharks do 4 damage(it is/was shark week after all)
Robots: hits all adjacent units (the spin animation already looks like it should)
Cuties: attack Knocks unit back 1 hex

If you think the cuties ability is a little weak, I think it offsets their uber super unit . Although I think being able to move around enemy units might have some interesting applications.

Outwitted

And if I think the Robots' is waaay too strong?

Well, at least it can't teleport...

Well, you COULD make it so that it works kinda like the bombshell: only hits one 3 damage, and deals 1 damage to everyone else around...

Personally I like the pre-buffed heavy idea better.

[Sakiehl]

I think someone already mentioned this, but in 2v2 I've been seeing heavies being way more valuable. I think this is because I also see far more 3hp soldiers and fewer 4hp soldiers. Heavies eat the 3hp guys up.

I wonder if getting rid of the pre-deployed medics would make heavies more useful. In 2v2 people seem less likely to spawn a medic for themselves. My thinking is this might be true in 1v1 as well, but on most boards you already start off with a medic.

[Ser Purple Wolf]

I personally like the way the heavy is. I mainly use him for defense and distractions. I do think however, that the soldier should be reduced to 2 base health, and boosted to 3. OR just have them cost 3 to spawn. Something to reduce their overall effectiveness.

[Alvendor]

(10-11-2012 02:22 AM)Sakiehl Wrote:  I think someone already mentioned this, but in 2v2 I've been seeing heavies being way more valuable. I think this is because I also see far more 3hp soldiers and fewer 4hp soldiers. Heavies eat the 3hp guys up.

I wonder if getting rid of the pre-deployed medics would make heavies more useful.

Oh, nice one. Maybe something for someone with beta forum access to bring to the developers attention for future maps?

(10-11-2012 02:22 AM)Sakiehl Wrote:  In 2v2 people seem less likely to spawn a medic for themselves. My thinking is this might be true in 1v1 as well, but on most boards you already start off with a medic.

Think of 2v2 as 1v1 with special rules. Then it makes sense for medics to be less valuable as you can only do the common play of create-boost-move in the same turn on half your units instead of all of them as in 1v1.

[CombatEX]

This suggestion has already been brought up on the beta forums (by harti) and was received reasonably well. I likewise mentioned the fact the heavies might be more valuable as a result (among the original benefits that harti brought up) so I wouldnt be surprised if we test this out.

[Ravernoth]

I'm fine with the heavy as it is - it is useful in certain situations, and the pre-deployed heavy is an important unit.

But I think removing the pre-deployed medic is a nice idea. We only usually have 1 medic out, so why not make it a decision a player has to make as to when to spawn one?

[worldfamous]

(10-11-2012 02:22 AM)Sakiehl Wrote:  I think someone already mentioned this, but in 2v2 I've been seeing heavies being way more valuable. I think this is because I also see far more 3hp soldiers and fewer 4hp soldiers. Heavies eat the 3hp guys up.

I wonder if getting rid of the pre-deployed medics would make heavies more useful. In 2v2 people seem less likely to spawn a medic for themselves. My thinking is this might be true in 1v1 as well, but on most boards you already start off with a medic.

Interesting idea but I think it's essentially a wash in terms of increasing heavy value. It basically shifts the heavy from a tank to DPS. Without the healer, the heavy is an easy kill.

[CombatEX]

(10-11-2012 06:57 PM)Ravernoth Wrote:  I'm fine with the heavy as it is - it is useful in certain situations, and the pre-deployed heavy is an important unit.

But I think removing the pre-deployed medic is a nice idea. We only usually have 1 medic out, so why not make it a decision a player has to make as to when to spawn one?

Really? How often do you see someone use a heavy and win because they used it in some meaningful way? Spawning a heavy when you're way ahead already doesn't count. I mean actually winning because they spawned a heavy instead of just spawning a different unit like a soldier (or two soldiers =P). The pre-deployed heavy is indeed a useful unit, but that's because you don't have to pay for it. This is where the issue for the heavy lies, the cost. Its role is actually pretty decent it's just too expensive.

worldfamous did bring up a good point though, the heavy would likewise be affected by the medic removal so net gain is questionable as far as heavy usefulness.

[Eijolend]

I agree with a lot of the discussion here. While spawning a Heavy usually isn't a very attractive move, the predeployed Heavies are an important part of early strategy, and once boosted the tactics required to deal with it are interesting and very different to dealing with a soldier.

I'm not sure if a heavy at 3 wits would be too good, but I think it could be tried out.