Differences/Comparison With Hero Academy

***onealexleft*** · 05-19-2012, 04:20 AM

(05-19-2012 03:24 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: I believe I read somewhere that you will not be able to try different things before submitting your turn in Outwitters, as in, once you move your elephant up one, there's no undoing that action. Is this correct? One of my favorite things about Hero Academy is being able to try my turn as many times as I'd like before submitting.

This is true. Outwitters takes a slightly different approach to this in that you need to be more 'sure-footed' with your moves. The game has a fog of war element in it that would be contradictory to being able to redo your turn.

aaronINdayton · 05-19-2012, 04:27 AM

(05-19-2012 04:20 AM)onealexleft Wrote:
(05-19-2012 03:24 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: I believe I read somewhere that you will not be able to try different things before submitting your turn in Outwitters, as in, once you move your elephant up one, there's no undoing that action. Is this correct? One of my favorite things about Hero Academy is being able to try my turn as many times as I'd like before submitting.

This is true. Outwitters takes a slightly different approach to this in that you need to be more 'sure-footed' with your moves. The game has a fog of war element in it that would be contradictory to being able to redo your turn.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh right the fog, awesome, I'm on board now.

stevewastaken · (This post was last modified: 06-10-2012 08:01 PM by stevewastaken.)

(05-19-2012 04:20 AM)onealexleft Wrote: This is true. Outwitters takes a slightly different approach to this in that you need to be more 'sure-footed' with your moves. The game has a fog of war element in it that would be contradictory to being able to redo your turn.

Well FoW isn't fully exclusive of an undo option.

For example, you could order you units to do something, and a sort of shadow unit shows the potential action, even onto Fogged vision (leaving it still fogged for now). This potential action can be undone and tried different ways.

Then when you confirm your turn, the units carry out their action. If they stumble onto something that blocks their path due to Fog, then action gets interrupted. Only now does the Fog update.

Granted I've not been able to play yet (release it already, AHHHH! :) and there could be other factors I can't comprehend yet. But like aaronindayton, I really love the undo option in HA, and would love to see it here if it all possible.

**Harti** · 06-11-2012, 08:49 AM

(06-10-2012 08:00 PM)stevewastaken Wrote: Well FoW isn't fully exclusive of an undo option.

For example, you could order you units to do something, and a sort of shadow unit shows the potential action, even onto Fogged vision (leaving it still fogged for now). This potential action can be undone and tried different ways.

Then when you confirm your turn, the units carry out their action. If they stumble onto something that blocks their path due to Fog, then action gets interrupted. Only now does the Fog update.

With your approach you would require every user to make additional (redundant) taps in the user interface, plus making the interface itself more complex.

It just doesn't make sense to plan a complete turn ahead while you don't see anything out there. Sometimes you just want to send some kind of scout to see what's going on, then prepare reaction to the enemy's formation. You can't do this when FoW is only updated after you submit your turn, it would turn into a rock-paper-scissors game with an additional portion of luck, actually.

And if you were to "sometimes send your turn and update fog", you would have to have an additional button somewhere, making everything just a little less tidied up. And for what benefit? That you can undo a misclick...
You actually do have to choose "Move" or "Cancel" when tapping a certain field right now. So you'll have to do your thinking while the little popup appears, I guess.

A turn planner is currently in development, I don't know how dedicated OML will be to promote that.

stevewastaken · 06-11-2012, 09:14 AM

Eh, I guess I'll have to wait and see. I can't really argue when I don't really know that much about how the game works.

aaronINdayton · 06-11-2012, 11:57 PM

(06-11-2012 08:49 AM)Harti Wrote:
(06-10-2012 08:00 PM)stevewastaken Wrote: Well FoW isn't fully exclusive of an undo option.

For example, you could order you units to do something, and a sort of shadow unit shows the potential action, even onto Fogged vision (leaving it still fogged for now). This potential action can be undone and tried different ways.

Then when you confirm your turn, the units carry out their action. If they stumble onto something that blocks their path due to Fog, then action gets interrupted. Only now does the Fog update.
With your approach you would require every user to make additional (redundant) taps in the user interface, plus making the interface itself more complex.

It just doesn't make sense to plan a complete turn ahead while you don't see anything out there. Sometimes you just want to send some kind of scout to see what's going on, then prepare reaction to the enemy's formation. You can't do this when FoW is only updated after you submit your turn, it would turn into a rock-paper-scissors game with an additional portion of luck, actually.

And if you were to "sometimes send your turn and update fog", you would have to have an additional button somewhere, making everything just a little less tidied up. And for what benefit? That you can undo a misclick...
You actually do have to choose "Move" or "Cancel" when tapping a certain field right now. So you'll have to do your thinking while the little popup appears, I guess.

A turn planner is currently in development, I don't know how dedicated OML will be to promote that.

Fog could be updated after every "confirmed" action, not after an entire turn, and the "confirm action" could be an option buried in your personal account's options that you have to activate to turn on. This way Steve and I (without knowing any better or worse at the moment) are happy, and everyone who actually knows how that game works and loves it are also happy.

That said, don't even think about implementing a change regarding undo's until the game is released!

***onealexleft*** · 06-12-2012, 02:34 AM

(06-11-2012 11:57 PM)aaronINdayton Wrote: Fog could be updated after every "confirmed" action, not after an entire turn, and the "confirm action" could be an option buried in your personal account's options that you have to activate to turn on. This way Steve and I (without knowing any better or worse at the moment) are happy, and everyone who actually knows how that game works and loves it are also happy.

That said, don't even think about implementing a change regarding undo's until the game is released!

That's how it currently works, Fog *is* updated after you confirm a move.

Solan · 06-12-2012, 01:40 PM

I feel like getting to redo a move is a bit cheap. it's a strategy game, and i think you should be rewarded for risking something rather than getting to try it out then decide not to go through with it if it turns out bad.

ArtNJ · 06-13-2012, 01:45 AM

No undo takes a lot of getting used to, but the problems with it are almost entirely failures to properly plan, particularly when adjusting mid-move.

The only true problem I have had with no undo is with accidental double taps on one of the special units, as it is the only unit that can use an action without moving (by transforming). So I have had an accidental transformation or two. I'm sensing that wont be fixed pre-release...I think they are really close now...

***onealexleft*** · 06-13-2012, 03:10 AM

(06-13-2012 01:45 AM)ArtNJ Wrote: The only true problem I have had with no undo is with accidental double taps on one of the special units, as it is the only unit that can use an action without moving (by transforming). So I have had an accidental transformation or two. I'm sensing that wont be fixed pre-release...I think they are really close now...

I actually fixed a bug with this the other day, So it'll be fixed for release.