Uprooting old topics - Veggienaut buff suggestion

[Necrocat219]

Hi everyone, I have an idea for a buff that I believe will close the gap between the Veggienauts and the rest of the races significantly and won't instill fear like 3hp roots did. The idea came to me in the same lines as when the Mobi was unintentionally buffed, it is:

> When a root is eliminated, the killing unit doesn't gain a wit back.

This buff will make every exchange that is possible involving the death of a root 1 wit more efficient. This will definitely make them much more viable, but without testing it can't be said how much better. It also doesn't stray away from their themes as roots are non-spawn spot units so it would make sense them not granting wits. The idea came from how Adorables got unintentially buffed by making all unit trades with the Mobi 1 wit more efficient. For those that don't know:

Quote:At one point the gain a wit on killing a unit didn't exist and the finishing blow to kill a unit cost 1 wit. Adorables were quite a bit weaker than Scallywags and Feedback, with hit and run on soldiers always being wit inefficient and killing runners rarely good. When wit for a kill was introduced, It did help Bombshells and Scramblers, but only by a few wits for each spawned. However, everything the mobi did offensively became 1 wit more efficient. Hit and run became something that was usable and beneficial while before it wasn't possible except in situational times, and long battles can see a Mobi repay it's own cost easily. As you now know it's made it the most used race in the top 200.

So that's the idea. However I feel that as the Bramble should be more strategic than all out offence I feel that it will help it with utility roles such as providing a good vision alternative and blockading far better. For a few examples of trades that will commonly take place, here is a list:

Vision

This buff would allow you to have a bramble thorn 2 hexes away from the opponents soldier line to keep an eye on what they do. It would cost a wit for a sniper to kill it, making that an even trade, cost '1 wit' for an advancing soldier to kill it (It would spend a wit moving but would be in a better position) so that lets you know where the opponent moved last. If the soldier attacks the root behind, then it's an even trade. So you gain vision with a few invested wits, and your opponent has strategies against this, such as advancing their units slowly so I don't believe it's ridiculous either.

Trades

I've talked about this briefly, you can kill runners more efficiently, help in making trades against soldiers with snipers and use roots as blockades better. One significant change is that snipers no longer gain a wit on killing them so they 'absorb' one attack from the opponent. Much like how sometimes a wit equal attack that removes an opponent's spawn helps with unit advantage, this can help in attack advantage. You still need to put in a big investment to use the bramble though, so it's not without risk.

Against Bramble

One thing I feel that this buff doesn't take away is the reward that opponents of Veggienaughts get for good plays against them which is what needs to stay. When a unit can get to a mother root and kill of a lot at the same time, it only reduces the efficiency of that successful attack by 1 which doesn't take much away from the reward of a successful breach. This still provides an effective solution to if your opponent begins spamming the Bramble.

Conclusion

I hope you understand like I do, and there are probably more points to add, but I don't remember anyone suggesting this. If they did, sorry that I repeated it, but I think it's a pretty good idea that makes sense.

[Poc 13]

I've heard that suggestion before. I'm not sure if that is the solution, but there definitely needs to be some slight buff in order for veggies to compete.

[.Memories.]

I just wish thorns weren't so damn annoying (for both players).

[Necrocat219]

Yeah, I understand that quite well. They get in the way of both the user and when used successfully like controlling a wit space it feels like a loss of hope.

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Fun fact: In the beta they couldn't even attack to start with, I made the initial suggestion to buff Veggies by letting them attack for 1 damage.

[[PETA] Cor13:4]

Tangential, but how about letting thorns grow underneath opponents, meaning you could get vision of a hex behind an opponent's front line by growing up to it, or you could grow behind the front line if their isn't a unit there?

It's not like it makes sense for a thorn to be stopped from growing because there is a soldier standing in front anyways.

[.Memories.]

That would reveal FOW info, though, without using a wit.

[lawtai]

The Bombshell radar already does that though, so it wouldn't be setting new precedent.

[.Memories.]

True, true.

[The Great Habudabi]

I am a fan of any buff for Veggies to make them viable. They are under-represented in the top 200. I would be equally for anything to 'unbuff' Adorables as they are over-represented in the top 200.

[Extreme Ghost]

I like the idea of a buff (I personally preferred vines with 3hp and no attacking over vines with 2hp and 1attack) i agree vines with 3hp and 1 attack were OP everyone was using veggies then and if you weren't you probably were getting spanked a lot haha

So my suggestion is go old school with a twist
Make 2 different type of vines to spawn

Vine A the 2hp vine that can do 1dmg (what we have now)
VineB the 3hp vine that can't do any dmg (what we use to have and you tryed buffing)

This will make bramble more versatile/strategic

The catch!! To prevent another OP plant epidemic vines can only spawn what thay are so 3hp no attack vines can only spawn 3hp no attack vines and 2hp 1attack can only spawn 2hp 1attack vine

I think this would be a nice buff and no one can claim it OP since ppl thought both needed/need a buff
But together I think thay stand a fair shot vs those pesky bombshell stallers and those wicked teleporting whales and those icky brainwashing scramblers