"Heavy" isn't worth the costs

**Harti** · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 01:17 AM by Harti.)

The predeployed Heavy on Glitch is extremely powerful, sometimes it gets to attack the opposing base once.

Another example would be on Foundry, if you as P1 move your Heavy two spaces up/down (depending on where you are), you can OHKO their Heavy unless they boost it.

Sharkfood Island rushing techniques would become even more dangerous, too.

Machination FTA would be affected as well.

But as calmon said, replacing them is something you could consider to fix possible imbalances.

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 02:02 AM by Alvendor.)

Agreed it would make rush tactics more powerful on Glitch. But is it currently viable to attack that side against a good opponent? So far I've had a tough time doing it

On Foundry and Sharkfood I don't think its necessarily to the attackers advantage. If he moves the heavy close to the defenders heavy, the defender can just take the initiative and one hit knock out the attacker.

*Edit* Just realized it would though make a mobi+heavy+runner combo very deadly close to the opponent's base.

jaesonwu · 08-05-2012, 03:24 AM

Heavies are undoubtedly good units... But not for their cost. As Harti said predeployed heavies can be quite powerful, but that's not the issue. The issue is are they worth their cost? Being good predeployed means nothing. Currently I hardly ever make heavies. Sure the predeployed once are often very useful but it's just so expensive to replace them that I would almost always just make other units to replace them. =/ so in other words heavies certainly do have their place in the game since they can be used effectively when predeployed, but are too expensive to warrant replacing them.

The problem is that for three wits they'd be too cheap... Theoretically do you think they'd be balanced at 3.5 wits? Obviously we don't want to introduce halves, but I'm just curious what all of you think.

**Harti** · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 03:28 AM by Harti.)

I'd really love to test them at 4 strength in order to see if that adresses the 4HP Soldier spam in STL.

Plus, the wit cost to spawn units is then according to their strength (1 - Runner, 2 - Soldier, 3 - Sniper, 4 - Heavy).

Kamikaze28 · 08-05-2012, 04:01 AM

(08-05-2012 03:27 AM)Harti Wrote: I'd really love to test them at 4 strength in order to see if that adresses the 4HP Soldier spam in STL.

Plus, the wit cost to spawn units is then according to their strength (1 - Runner, 2 - Soldier, 3 - Sniper, 4 - Heavy).

While thinking about this 4 damage Heavy idea, you do keep in mind that a buffed (5 HP) Heavy marching towards a base is a) very hard to stop/destroy and b) almost destroys a base in one hit? Don't forget about the Mobi who can negate the greatest weakness of the Heavy, namely its low mobility.
Also, a 4 damage Heavy would one shot everything but a buffed Heavy.

I do like the Wit cost relating to damage thing though - has quite a harmony to it.

**Harti** · 08-05-2012, 04:18 AM

I am aware of that but the longer I think of it, the smaller the problem actually becomes. When a Heavy hits the base, you're usually toast anyway so I don't see a huge problem there. You're right though, it needs to be tested somehow.

calmon · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 05:15 AM by calmon.)

Before I get a moby in range to lift a melee I lift up a sniper far earlier.

Mobi 7 hex away can asily move, drop a sniper and do 3 damage. So bringing a heavy to do 4 damage needs a mobi in 4 range + even more wits (1 additional for the heavy compared to sniper and 1 for the additional move) + a lot more reaction time for opponent. Not really that much better.

Sure there may be another discussion about the different specials balanced or not but this shouldn't influence a heavy buff.

Meph1ston · 08-05-2012, 08:48 AM

It should just be tested with different stats of the heavy with variating health, damage, costs or something like 1 health regeneration up to 4 health per round.

whoTookYoste?! · 08-05-2012, 07:32 PM

Haven't been following the thread, but I'm going to put in (as a master's player (not Super Titan which is who you should be listening to)) I've found the Heavy's to be very, very useful for when your 1 spawn point is being aggressively swarmed. A sniper is nice, but not against more than 1 already spawned runner (at Least).

calmon · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 07:37 PM by calmon.)

(08-05-2012 07:32 PM)whoTookYoste?! Wrote: Haven't been following the thread, but I'm going to put in (as a master's player (not Super Titan which is who you should be listening to)) I've found the Heavy's to be very, very useful for when your 1 spawn point is being aggressively swarmed. A sniper is nice, but not against more than 1 already spawned runner (at Least).

Yep, thats what I wrote:

- even in defense its mainly only good when opponent sit exactly besides your spawnplace and have exactly 3 health. Most other cases runner/soldier/sniper defend better for the costs