Burnocaster: the new rush on Machination (2v2)

[Szei]

(06-23-2013 02:42 AM)burnodrod Wrote:  

(06-21-2013 12:06 AM)Gavin Wins Wrote:  Burno - what was your inspiration for developing this Machination strategy? Which players/games influenced you, etc. Or is this attack completely of your own design?

I think the idea is obvious - take predeployed sniper from where it's useless and put it where it's usefull. And protect it somehow

And that sniper positioning and attempted protection is also pivotal to devising a good counter.

1. You can't really guarantee the sniper's protection with the burnocaster rush in its current form.
2. Moving the sniper results in a lack of protection for the wit space which can also be exploited.

The rush is still powerful enough that even harassing the wit space and killing the sniper isn't enough on its own if red/green is P2*, but it does have weaknesses enough that it can be countered when blue/yellow is P2 regardless of team choice.

*so far I haven't found a satisfactory counter

You can invite me but it seems like Red/Green is always P2 in friendly games so I'm not sure how we can set up the Blue/Yellow P2 variant. If my steps are easy enough to follow though in the previous post I believe it is clear that the team using burnocaster is in trouble by T7.

NOTE: I'm not using Szei at the moment. If you figure out how to set up a friendly game where blue/yellow is P2, PM me and I'll let you know which accounts to invite.

[alexjiang1]

@Burnodrod
Yes! y'all's openings are very different. That one on CCM with the early Mobi was shocking, we didn't know what y'all were up to. But jesus, I hate CCM.

[poweewee]

(06-23-2013 02:42 AM)burnodrod Wrote:  That's not really true!
1) Maybe Mastercaster was a little bit drunk (as it happens with him) and didn't think he needed to protect the mobi. He could do it easily with a runner. Having mobi we'd still have advantage.
You lost 2 or 3 times before you have found this counter, so it'd be fair to give us 2-3 attempts as well. It is likely we simply made a mistake.

2) Not sure that you can call it the universal method since you (Poweewee) used Scrambler. So, you have to choose Feedback just in case of Burnocaster... and what if it's not? Or what if you get the wrong base (as you get randomly on of two bases). Then your partner has to pick up Feedback too? And will it work? We didn't check.

3) The game isn't finished yet and what if you will not win? %)

---

Yup, it's definitely not over. But I guess our opening did what it was supposed to do, which is simply to surprise you guys with something new.

If you knew we were doing this, you could actually have placed a runner as well in front of the heavy. I also think two feedbacks would be necessary if this were a good defense. In any case, I don't see any problem with two feedbacks, especially as the scrambler defends quite well.

[Mag!cGuy]

The fact we don't win absolutely won't be due to the burnocaste now.

[laYahooz]

Still op rush. Machination is just an op map for p1 and P3 in general. Has to be fixed or even deleted (yes I find it that frustrating).

Also other maps that I used to think didnt have a FTA eally, namely acrospire, are definetly getting FTA figured out now by teams. This is getting stupid :/

[Gavin Wins]

Acrospire balances fta better than most, but it's still there.

[burnodrod]

(06-24-2013 02:05 AM)Mag!cGuy Wrote:  The fact we don't win absolutely won't be due to the burnocaste now.

OK then! I agree that you stopped the burnocaster i.e. prevented the game from being lost in 9-12 turns. I agree that it's not necessary to kill the mobi to achieve that goal and killing the sniper is enough. I agree that killing sniper is not hard and possible in any combination - whether P2 has one base or another.

But how do you know that it's Burnocaster and what if it's not? We started another game to figure that out - you thought that burnocaster was coming and therefore lost the sniper. Now we have FTA + mobi advantage. Does that mean that it's possible to simulate Burnocaster to win the game, Huh?

[laYahooz]

The stupid rush method and name (okay the name is cool ) doesn't mean shizzzzzzz.

Just FTA in general is OP.

[poweewee]

(06-24-2013 10:12 AM)laYahooz Wrote:  The stupid rush method and name (okay the name is cool ) doesn't mean shizzzzzzz.

Just FTA in general is OP.

Exactly.

Also, we didn't need that sniper (it wasnt even used in our previous matches yet), and if we were to choose which strategy to defend against, I suppose we have to defend the more immediate threat, which is the burnocaster rush.

[Szei]

(06-24-2013 08:08 AM)burnodrod Wrote:  I agree that it's not necessary to kill the mobi to achieve that goal and killing the sniper is enough. I agree that killing sniper is not hard and possible in any combination - whether P2 has one base or another.

Yes, though even if you kill the sniper when P2 is Green/Red it is still hard to stop the rush. As P2 Blue/Yellow it's easy though. Also, I don't think it matters whether you do the rush or not with my counter. If you don't do it the counter rush still doesn't put you in a bad position as the runners can are in range to help attack/defend the top, bottom, and center. They also can still capture the wit spaces or kill the sniper if P1/P3 aren't careful.