Should Scramblers get a buff?

[terenceshiu2005]

(06-10-2013 11:02 PM)Cor13:4 Wrote:  Ha, watching ScramblerBaby, it must be Terence. The last Peekaboo game, the play style is exactly like his other games.

Not difficult to know that, most of my game are setting up my units and do a heavy attack. Just realized that you are watching my replays, have to change the style....

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(06-10-2013 11:54 PM)Cor13:4 Wrote:  Has anybody ever done the same though against you and did the mass attack first? How did it go? So far, doing that has worked great for me against Adorables, but I've never had someone mirror it against me.

I wont tell you, you will know after you try

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It seems that feedback should get a buff (Veggienauts as well), but don't know how. I will choose 'Full HP Scrambling'. Special should cost the same (7 wits). 'Movement 4' & 'Move After Scrambling' are too powerful. 'More HP' may cause another imbalance.

I would rather support the veto, but limited to ~20% of maps, say 2 maps at this moment. All races can have this option, a player can disable it when he/she wants to challenge himself/herself on a disadvantage map.

[ElPared]

(06-10-2013 08:55 AM)Deadbeatman Wrote:  want to change game dynamics, which I'm not in favor for, how about we change the mind control ability be something ranged. possibly not 3 hexes but maybe that is too far ahead so how about two? This way they could be still safe behind other troops.

giving Scrambler's brainwash a range of 2 (1 less than sniper) was one of my ideas, but it's functionally identical to giving it movement 4 and seems more broken to me because it doesn't leave the Scrambler exposed and vulnerable to counterattacks.

sorry, just noticed that in post number 3 (I had to kind skim this thread as comments stacked up a bit faster than I thought they would)

[(Rone)]

(06-11-2013 12:33 PM)ElPared Wrote:  

(06-10-2013 08:55 AM)Deadbeatman Wrote:  want to change game dynamics, which I'm not in favor for, how about we change the mind control ability be something ranged. possibly not 3 hexes but maybe that is too far ahead so how about two? This way they could be still safe behind other troops.

giving Scrambler's brainwash a range of 2 (1 less than sniper) was one of my ideas, but it's functionally identical to giving it movement 4 and seems more broken to me because it doesn't leave the Scrambler exposed and vulnerable to counterattacks.

sorry, just noticed that in post number 3 (I had to kind skim this thread as comments stacked up a bit faster than I thought they would)

Great minds think a like. I didn't say it for credit rather possible improvement on the scrambler.

When replying to this post I thought maybe I should suggest giving all scrambled units 2 hp except for any troops already lower in hp. But I didn't because I thought it wasn't as good of a balancing idea. As the ranged idea allow scramblers more ability to defend themselves. I'm thinking about balancing teams in more then one way. The balance within the individual team, so they can put up a decent fight against other teams and the balancing teams together.

Together is an important subject because if you balance a particular team you also have to make sure it doesn't imbalance other teams. Besides I'd like to see veggies be balanced.

[ElPared]

I've been playing veggies more lately and they seem pretty balanced to me still, more so than the scrambler certainly.

I'd support getting units at 2 HP instead of 1 (as you said, if the unit was at 2 HP or more). My big complaint is that it's so easy to kill both the scrambler AND the brainwashed unit that often it's not worth making the scrambler in the first place and I feel like that would make doing that a little bit harder (IE you can't kill the brainwashed unit with a runner as easily)

[Mag!cGuy]

Elpared, I really would like to see a replay where you use scrambler and get crushed, because I think you don't handle it well to say it's less powerful than bramble. Do you watch high level replays where it's used? Don't you see the scrambler has an incredible threatening power and can reverse the ending of a game? Buffing it would make it OP, when I play it I feel it's as mighty as mobi. Try to attack a feedback that you know he can have a scrambler, try to take the map control when a scrambler is somewhere: you basically can't. Powee himseld told me it was soooo hard to attack a feedback! When I use it in a sneaky way (like obliging my opponent to get to a place and then easily scrambling an unit) I feel like it's even already OP lol

I'm sure you didn't get the way to use it. As I said, don't send him alone expecting to deal damage. It's "so easy" to kill scrambler and scrambled units if you didn't play well, yeah! And sometimes, even if the opponent does so, your other units are still here and your attack still is powerful. Cuz, you use a scrambler to make a big attack, right? Take its power into consideration again: it's as if you killed an unit for free, then created another unit for free. There is also the space utilisation: if you're in a narrow place, you can kill more units than if you just sent many soldiers, cuz you can hit and back with the scrambled unit. Oh, and if you have a plan, you can manage to heal the scrambled unit!

[(Rone)]

Alright I give up... I must show this replay of scrambler use... totally caught me off guard. I'm still getting used to players of higher caliber using scrambler against me and let me mention that he isn't even that good at using scrambler!

Here is my game... pretty embarrassed about how it happened because I kept on falling into his trap a few wits later after I saw the second scrambler.
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y5uHYAww

This game shows how noob I am. I may be an armature at playing against scramblers but I'm not a bad player.

I agree with mag!c, don't knock a team unless you have mastered their special.
Let's define "Mastered" them is closer to being an ST or higher within the ranks of the top 200 instead of master leaguer.

ST game of extremely strong use of scrambler, just imagine if you were able to keep that scrambler as well as the unit!
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yze2-Aww#92

[[PETA] Cor13:4]

I'm confused, you won that game...

[Necrocat219]

-Scrambler withers and dies upon scrambling due to the weak body and the energy needed to scramble
-The unit is scrambled with full health

A nerf in terms of scrambling a runner, but mostly I think I see it as a general buff while reducing how much you can snowball during a game. In close games the scrambler is usually guaranteed to die, so it would cost the opponent more wits to remove the full HP soldier/heavy. In games where it would survive usually it's due to a gap in skill level so it wouldn't be a nerf that should affect how those games pan out.

[(Rone)]

(06-12-2013 11:00 PM)Cor13:4 Wrote:  I'm confused, you won that game...

Although I won the game, the way I played the turn 10 was like a clever. Once I moved up my soldier to kill the first 2hp scrambler and saw the second scrambler I should have built a new unit and retake my wit space instead of putting my sniper in danger. Everything else would have been the same though. One misuse of a wit puts a huge dent in my defenses.

[ElPared]

maybe I do just suck with Scramblers. it took me several losses to get good with Adorables, so maybe it's just taking me that many more to get good with the Scrambler.

The problem is Feedback and Adorables are my favorite teams (based on design) so I've tried to master them the whole time I've been playing, but have really only succeeded with Adorables.

guess I should do my homework :/