Sweetie Plains SvS Broken!

[His_Daddy]

1. Of course you didn't "say" it's "absolutely wrong". Then what's the point of your pointing out "two bombshells at turn 13"? Who said "if you could play normally and don't turtle as soon as possible, it wouldn't be boring as hell?" Define "normal" for me please? It's your right to dislike this play. But you don't like it doesn't mean it's not normal. Can you understand it?

And of course, the replay:

http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/...20YmP-XAww

And you said you hate turtle? What are you doing then?
I admit Scally totally control this map in late game, like what A do in SFI. The problem is, why play defensively and make it to late? It's you that let me win brainlessly, and it's you that choose a boring turtle strategy against S that wear out your chance to win and make it forever long. You blame me to make it boring?

And I'm telling you, from now on, this is the normal play of Scally on this map. You wanna turtle with me? Try as hard as you can.


2. Back to the POINT 1. Same reason, you can't beat it does not mean bs is op, it could be just because of you, or exactly, it's just because of you. Since you are not able to get this logic, again, I don't think I've insulted you anyway, it's just a OBJECTIVELY description.

3. Now you are talking about "analysis", lmao. Analysis= "you don't like it" or "only you can't beat it"? Or ignoring the fact that top 200 are mostly adorables? Do you understand what does analysis or objective mean? You know why so many people have complained when lost to Scally and I only focus on you? It is only you that keep talking your feeling and thought that's a convincing reason and is objective because you are "at your current rank", and try to convince others without facing the basic fact. And you say I'm the subjective one? You really made my day.

In respond to your "reaching your rank", a reminder in case you really can't remember. Counting games between us, your win ratio is not even 1/3. You do have played more, but that's it. Surely I'm not proud of it or want any medal (why so? just because I can beat you?). The point is, you don't have a convincing brain to make a BS is op conclusion. I can discuss or argue with people, but only if he can make sense.

@terenceshiu2005, I would agree with most of your analysis, though I would have reservation for S>F. I think most of the time I was talking about SvA. Still, generally I don't think S>A and I'm pretty sure any pure nerf to BS (reduce attack, splash, hp, limit range, more cost of wit on spawn or move) will definitely destroy the balance. Adjustment might help, but nerf is surely useless baby talking.

@SPW. Long time no see. I had some thoughts about veggie but you just inspired me to make it complete, the basic idea is, if roots can be different, it would be easier to adjust it to be balanced. For example: first root from Thorn, 3hp 2 attack, its son, 2 hp 2 attack, grandson 1hp and 2attack (or 2hp 1attack), after grand, 1hp 1attack. (Stats might need adjustment.)

Anyway, it's just a voice against the nerf of BS. If anyone still believes BS is op, please use it to screw those top A players to prove it. I'm looking forward to someone who can destroy my belief or at least convince me with a real reason. Then, I won't ignore the point or keep crying, but will just be happy to shut up and learn.

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Lol, a typical sophistry tip:
When you can't make sense in an argue, change the topic.

As I've expected you would do something like this, I added my thought at the bottom so anyone who can read will know I'm not only arguing.

Let me quote two sentence of your post:
"All your tiny words meaning I have no skills are pretty hilarious since you never reached my rank."
"..you don't stop to do it and saying you're better than me.."

Can you at least be consistent by yourself? As well as the complain about turtle? All your word just make me be more and more sure that I have not insulted you at all.

But one thing you said is right, there is no point to keep this argue, no matter for what reason. I will stop arguing with you from now on.

At least, next time if someone still want to complain BS is op, he will know there is a different voice.

(06-05-2013 07:21 AM)Mag!cGuy Wrote:  Daddy, it's over now. I thought you were gonna end it, I thought "hey maybe I argue too much", but no, you really go on bullying on me. You needed a punching ball, but now you are getting really annoying cuz you don't seem to understand it's not the place to fight, insult and denigrate someone else. Stop it, really, stop it, that thread was better without you.
I never criticized you really but you don't stop to do it and saying you're better than me (you're seriously givin the ratio of three batles only separated by two months each? Is that a joke?) and I have no brain and my opinion is trash etc, we aren't in primary school, really, be quiet, If you don't know how to discuss, don't do it.

Erenan: awesome idea x) I imagine a combo, like bs yieldind scrambler who scramble bs who yield scrambler etc

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It's my fault that haven't make my point clearly at the first place.
The point of argument is simple:
1. Most import one. There is no convincing evidence BS is op, one player don't know how to deal with it doesn't mean it need nerfed. I'm just standing out as a voice of Scally player. That's the purpose of this forum, not just letting one view dominate, right?
2. Waiting one turn for 4 days for a month bothered me, especially when you know he's online actually. I can still understand that since people get upset, until the blame to me after, not mention he's turtling (that's what turtle real means: never attack, just waiting and that's what can make a game really endless).

(06-05-2013 05:28 AM)Doodat Wrote:  I think this argument is pointless. Mag!cGuy is just saying he doesn't like turtlers -> This does not mean he doesn't respect the strategy. His_Daddy feels like there is no difference in not liking turtlers and disrespect. That's it. Balance is not a huge issue (although vegs could be buffed) and <- that is TOTALLY unrelated to the argument. I still don't understand why there is an argument in the first place. The only reason Adorables is used so much is because its versatility allows it to take on several play styles. Scallywags almost have to turtle, if that's the playstyle that is appealing to the player, let it be. Feedback adds a lot more spice with the Scambler, it can be used more defensively and offensively and is similar to the mobi in that it can "teleport" a unit by scrambling it; however, the difference is that in an attack, scrambler gains a unit advantage but is limited in which unit to take, while the mobi can use any unit and bring it to the front. In a defense, mobi can transport units quickly, but scramblers have the ability to swing a defensive fight in the favor of the defender. With veggies, I think the only viable way to use the bramble is harass while still building a unit advantage.

[terenceshiu2005]

(06-05-2013 05:57 AM)Szei Wrote:  Before I begin, I would like to say, if you play Scallywags, Feedback, or Veggienauts at a Super-Titan level, please share your replays! As Terence said, it is healthy for the game to have a good mix of teams at the top level of competition lest the game devolve into a 1 team game with significantly less variety as a result. Currently it is discouraging for upcoming players who don't play Adorables as Adorables are the team of choice for ST players. Hopefully if people share high-level games with other teams upcoming players will hopefully be motivated to continue with non-Adorables teams instead of just switching to Adorables.

I would love to do this, I could share some win/lose replays and my scallywags as well. some are boring as turtling , but useful. Please allow me to take a while for reviewing my replays.

[Mag!cGuy]

Terence, don't you think some VvF would be awesome? I've never seen this matchup in ST's battles

[terenceshiu2005]

(06-05-2013 03:07 PM)Mag!cGuy Wrote:  Terence, don't you think some VvF would be awesome? I've never seen this matchup in ST's battles

Not sure about this match because we only have few veggienauts players in ST. Scrambler can convert thorns, but it is not difficult to be killed by thorns (attack, uplift, attack) if scrambler is being discovered.

[Mag!cGuy]

Well there is currentlt a few but I'd like to be like trutchy, a multi race player! Even with veggies. And scrambler could be disadvantaged but I think you agree bramble is the less powerful, or the most difficult one to use, special.

[terenceshiu2005]

agree, I will try bramble later, hope I can be an veggies expertise...

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I have captured last 30 game of bombshell BB for sharing
http://www.onemanleft.com/forums/showthr...p?tid=2259

[[PETA] Cor13:4]

I've always wanted to see an offensive bramble move! They do have 4 move unrooted right?

Maybe tow one along when you attack and root it after your attack, then build some vines to take a spawn or block the counter-attack. I'm sure it'd be limited in use, but I've always wanted to see that.

[Mag!cGuy]

It's not impressive, but I managed to really use the bramble against a ST here :

http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/...20Yy7_FAww


And if you want a mastered use of bramble there is this classic:
http://osn.codepenguin.com/replays/view/...20Y4JaJAww

[bobolynx]

For bramble fix, maybe the range to place the first barrier could be larger. The purpose would be to make the bramble a faster unit then the rest, and would also allow for complicated mother daughter relationships

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So have the maximum range for the first barrier be the 4 for moving the bramble, and the 4 for the barrier, and then two for every further bramble