Turtling Discussion

[xSkeletalx]

I've noticed a recent trend lately where a lot of my opponents force a turtle match abd just sit doing nothing until I attack. This happens when the opponent makes what looks like an aggressive push at the start, and I fall back to defend - they will then spawn enough units to stretch across the map, but sit and wait for me to push forward. This seems like a guaranteed win every time. Has anyone else seen this lately?

[swimj]

Not particularly...if you don't want that to happen just force the pace of the game yourself by sending over some runners (to scout anyway) or make a brief attack so opponent has to do sth besides building up.

[Bluegodzill]

I'm in a match where turtling is extreme, peekaboo. I have 6 bombshells vs 3 or so mobis in that match and it's turn 120 something...

[Syvan]

I've thought about posting a thread just like this, but I wasn't sure other people were experiencing the same problem. It's especially bad if P1 decides to turtle, since P2 has almost no way to apply pressure in a cost effective way early in the game. The disincentive to turtling on most maps is simply the desire to have fun. Maps like peekaboo, glitch, and sharkfood have no way to punish a P1 turtle.

This match is especially bad, even after watching it several times, I can't imagine how I could have prevented it. I think the lazy response is to suggest applying pressure to the wit space. I don't think this is viable. Since P1 has several wits saved to purchase the bombshell, they can use those wits to crush my push, then go back to turtling. I think/hope the eventual plan is to slowly move those bombshells forward, while keeping them in range of the others. At the end, I just wanted to finish it so I could have the replay.

I had another game with the same player that I was able to win using 3 mobi's to bust a hole in the turtle and end the game in a single turn. I forgot to save the reply because I was so disgusted. In fact I had 4 games in a row against the same person who applied literally the same strategy. Go first, play defense, build many bombshells.

Here's another match where I find a bombshell as P2, and figure I have a slight enough advantage to apply pressure. In the end the bombshell wins the way that Alvendor intended. In response to swimj, I did pop in with a runner and apply pressure in this situation, but FTA combined with bombshell's defensive abilities handily won the day.

The typical response to a turtle is to choke their resources, buildup an overwhelming force and crush them. However, the resource system in outwitters does not allow turtling on small maps to be punished since the wit spaces are often included in the defense. In fact, due to the small size of these maps, area denial units like the bombshell and sniper are all the more effective.

If anyone watches those games and sees a legitimate path to victory that doesn't include 30 turns of accruing units and jostling for position, I would absolutely love to hear it since I nearly rage-deleted the app 2 days ago.

I don't think it's a huge problem yet because people care more about having fun than seeing who gets bored faster. But I would be willing to bet that if we had a tournament for money, the ensuing games would be an absolutely horrific experience.

Edit: weird grammer

[Harti]

(07-24-2012 11:58 PM)Bluegodzill Wrote:  I'm in a match where turtling is extreme, peekaboo. I have 6 bombshells vs 3 or so mobis in that match and it's turn 120 something...

If you believe in God, you could thank God for your opponent not knowing what a Mobi is.

If you don't, just be glad they probably have no idea what they're doing.

[Bluegodzill]

Nah, they're using them to hit and run me, they're too pussy to actually get in range of my 6 mortars in a line behind soldiers and heavies -.-

[Kamikaze28]

(07-25-2012 01:26 AM)Bluegodzill Wrote:  Nah, they're using them to hit and run me, they're too pussy to actually get in range of my 6 mortars in a line behind soldiers and heavies -.-

And you don't start the offensive because of the Mobi's incredible defensive prowess? March your formation of Soldiers/Heavies and Bombshells forward slowly and pave everything in your way, what can your opponent pull on you that you can't destroy with 3 Wits?

[Bluegodzill]

Well, he also has a crap ton of soldiers and heavies.

[Syvan]

(07-25-2012 02:14 AM)Bluegodzill Wrote:  

(07-25-2012 01:53 AM)Kamikaze28 Wrote:  

(07-25-2012 01:26 AM)Bluegodzill Wrote:  Nah, they're using them to hit and run me, they're too pussy to actually get in range of my 6 mortars in a line behind soldiers and heavies -.-

And you don't start the offensive because of the Mobi's incredible defensive prowess? March your formation of Soldiers/Heavies and Bombshells forward slowly and pave everything in your way, what can your opponent pull on you that you can't destroy with 3 Wits?

Well, he also has a crap ton of soldiers and heavies.

/perfect_example

[Harti]

Heavies go only 2 spaces, your Bombshell can harass units at 4 spaces distance and heavily damage units at 3 spaces. Do the math.


Your opponent invested lots of wits into getting a THIRD (dafuq did I just read?) Mobi so I don't quite think they'll have enough wit to align their units in a way so you cannot harm them or you even get overwhelmed.
Plus, they can't sneak (enough) Heavies in to destroy a notable amount of Bombshells (provided yours are at 4 health, everything else is just bonkers against Mobisnipers), even with three Mobis (it takes them 1 to move Mobi, 1 to get the Heavy, 1 to attack). Even IF they do manage to destroy three of your Bombshells... you've got three behind these, killing most of the forces they threw in.

Provided your opponent still doesn't know what they're doing, you'll scare the crap out of them once your Bombshell force is proceeding.