Sweetie Plain: A second turn advantage.

Mag!cGuy · 04-10-2013, 12:39 AM

The more I play on this map (that I like), the more I'm sure of one thing:
P2 is advantaged.

Just look at OSN and search for sweetie plain replays only. Look at master/ST level games and tell me if you see any one where P1 wins. Ok, maybe one or two, but 90% of the time P2 wins.

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y-OGqAww

Ispree is in my opinion at least as good as poweewee and alvendor, he has a perfect gameplay and I wonder how to beat him. But, here, I would like you to point out my real mistakes apart from one: I created some soldiers at the left side to prepare an attack. But, should it be a mistake? I didn't let completely undefended my weak side. Smile

P2 will always win the rush and you have to spend all your wits into defense to be sure not to loose in 15 turns. It's not a real problem, but I don't think this ranking "P1=defend; P2=attack" should be that obvious.

I might be wrong of course, but it's the feeling I have. Any thoughts about this? Smile

Gf!sh · 04-10-2013, 12:41 AM

I like it. Now we have an exact opposite of Foundry!

GreatGonzales · 04-10-2013, 12:45 AM

Yeah, I guess you needed to not build those soldiers on turn 1 and 3, and play more defensively.

Hifimatlock · 04-10-2013, 01:06 AM

Hola. In my opinion, you should have killed the soldier by the bush and not the one on the wit space on turn 7. You could have created a soldier and not had to move both your soldier and sniper that turn.

worldfamous · 04-10-2013, 01:06 AM

I think you would've been fine if you didn't sacrifice your sniper. If you just back him up one space, he's protected and still in range to attack next turn.

poweewee · 04-10-2013, 01:46 PM

Yes, and on your first turn, you should spawn some runners in order to threaten his sniper. That should put him on the defensive.

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 04-11-2013 09:02 AM by Alvendor.)

I was about to post something similar MagicGuy! (Was waiting to finish up a sweetie plain game...). First of all, this is a good example it is far from obvious that P1 always has an advantage.

We are probably starting to find out close to optimal strategies for this map. But i don't think it is "P1=defend; P2=attack" but rather "P1=attack; P2=attack". Both players attacking and defending at the same time. Not sure who comes out ahead, probably several different combinations you need to know to play well.

My guess is that the best move for P1 is to take wit spaces with heavy and runner, create a soldier on the side and a runner mid.

**edit**
Both players wants to use as many wits as possible attacking and not defending. So this opening allows P1 to get 2 soldiers and a runner attacking on turn 3. Medic goes to attacking side for both players. If P2 threatens the sniper with a runner it can be taken out with a new runner. If P2 creates 2 runners P1 will be ahead in number of attacking soldiers...

ElPared · 04-11-2013, 11:11 AM

most of my Sweetie Plains matches just involve harassing side Wit Spaces or Spawns. I guess I'm just not that good at SP yet :/

ImperialSun · 04-11-2013, 01:00 PM

supertitan P1 wins on sp in last 20 games: 50%
master P1 wins on sp in last 40 games: 42.5%

I don't really see the problem you mention about P1 being clearly disadvantaged.

Getting to the replay in particular, I'm curious why didn't you spawn a runner on turn 1. On SP unit count is a huge factor. Moving the medic instead wasn't useful because you couldn't heal with it anyway that turn. Usually if I am P1 I spawn a soldier on my attacking route and a runner in the middle. This lets me see if there is a runner threat to my sniper next turn and also gives me an extra unit I can send over to attack if not. My center spawn space mostly goes to runner production because they are mobile enough to join the attack quickly and also give me vision of my defensive side and runner threats to my sniper. The side spawn space goes mostly to soldiers which provide the majority of the attacking power and used in conjunction with my runners. Most of the time when I have a chance to trade 1 for 1 with a soldier or runner on the side I am attacking I will do it because it is easier for me to replenish my units as the attacker (from my two spawns) then it is for the defender (who has only one close spawn).

terenceshiu2005 · 04-13-2013, 02:38 AM

(04-11-2013 08:04 AM)Alvendor Wrote: ......create a soldier on the side and a runner mid.

I will say it the best scenario in term of unit count.