Bramble overnerfed

PowerCrazy · 03-28-2013, 06:43 AM

There is no need for any of these convoluted ideas. All you need is to remove the wit on kill and the bramble is perfect. Easy enough to counter, but not free to counter.

Gf!sh · 03-28-2013, 06:53 AM

(03-28-2013 06:43 AM)PowerCrazy Wrote: There is no need for any of these convoluted ideas. All you need is to remove the wit on kill and the bramble is perfect. Easy enough to counter, but not free to counter.

Elaborate plz.

ElPared · (This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 06:56 AM by ElPared.)

(03-27-2013 04:37 AM)TheGoldenGriffin Wrote: What about thorn patches can't attack but it can inflict 1 damage to any unit that physically attacks it? So units like soldiers, heavies, and scramblers get pricked by the thorns but units like snipers and bombshells don't cuz they're attacking at a distance. That way, Bramble can't go thorn patch spamming and kill your medics and snipers.
Oh and, what was Alvendor's idea?

I've been saying this since Bramble V1. it makes more sense for the thorns to hurt what attacks them than for the thorns to be able to attack themselves.

of course I'd want them to also be 3HP again if they did this. I like Bramble V2 the best but it just needed one or two small tweaks to be perfect. We got retractable thorns, and I think counterattacking thorns would be ideal.

they'd still suck against Scallywags but I think that's more of a problem with Bombshells than Brambles.

oh, and Alvendor's idea was to limit each Bramble and each thorn to only one child so making multiple brambles would be a viable option.

GreatGonzales · (This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 07:03 AM by GreatGonzales.)

(03-28-2013 06:43 AM)PowerCrazy Wrote: There is no need for any of these convoluted ideas. All you need is to remove the wit on kill and the bramble is perfect. Easy enough to counter, but not free to counter.

I still think this would be overpowered, not balanced. Veggies could be very wit efficient and overwhelm unit count, especially on maps like Sweet Tooth.

With all the Bramble ire, I would just like to bring your attention to this:

(03-15-2013 03:11 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:
(03-15-2013 02:11 AM)poweewee Wrote: Bramble turtling. I knew it was coming

This reminded me of something, so I found my old posts. Note the respective dates, the first was before the veggienauts were announced, the second was after. Just sayin'....I called it.

From thread: The most important thing in the new update...for you?

(09-26-2012 04:49 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:
(09-26-2012 04:31 AM)Harti Wrote: A destroyable terrain tile. Which has, like, 3 HP and acts as a wall until destroyed.

Very interesting... But I wouldn't want a special with the ability to create these tiles, I think. We have enough turtlers as it is.

From thread: Meet the Veggienauts!

(09-28-2012 11:44 PM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Harti called it didn't he!

And what did I say...I wouldn't want a special with that ability. Well, time (and lots of betatesting) will tell if it's overpowered!

And here we are today, sounds familiar doesn't it? How about that?

PowerCrazy · 03-28-2013, 07:05 AM

(03-28-2013 06:53 AM)Gf!sh Wrote:
(03-28-2013 06:43 AM)PowerCrazy Wrote: There is no need for any of these convoluted ideas. All you need is to remove the wit on kill and the bramble is perfect. Easy enough to counter, but not free to counter.

Elaborate plz.

Right now a thorn has 2hp. If you kill it with a soldier you just killed it for free. The original bramble had 2hp thorns and it was a little a weak, but those 2hp thorns did not return a wit on kill. The "buff" to the bramble at v2 wasn't a buff at all. It actually made the thorns EVEN WEAKER. 3hp thorns with a wit return on kill terrible, and many players knew it, so then Alex made the thorns able to attack and detract, which was ok, but with a 3hp thorn that can attack it was OP because the only counter to it was heavies which are extremely wit inefficient.

So now for some reason the bramble has been changed back to 2hp, BUT WITH WIT RETURN, allowing soldiers to counter an unlimited number of vines, effortlessly. If the vines can be countered so readily I question why they exist at all. What is their Niche, what can they do that can be done better with a scout?

And of course, the original reason Vines were weak was vs Scallywags, well guess what? They are still weak vs scallywags, but now they are weak vs EVERYONE, they are actually the weakest unit in the game.

GreatGonzales · 03-28-2013, 07:27 AM

Let's wait a few weeks before jumping to conclusions about the new bramble.

blckace · (This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 07:35 AM by blckace.)

I hope no one takes this the wrong way but they are not the weakest, I'm pretty sure the odds of a feedback or adorables player winning against me playing veggies are slim to none
And if we remove the wit return on kill it will be impossible
I don't understand when people say they can be countered so easily that argument makes no sense
It's not a game of thorn spam, what are you hoping to accomplish?
The bramble is ok now and if people don't like it they can choose another team

Ryzuma · (This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 07:42 AM by Ryzuma.)

Honestly I think bramble is fine as it now. It's kind of like trading 1 movement on a runner for 1 extra hp. You can reach 4 hexes away by spending 2 wits which is the same amount it costs to make a runner and move it. It deals 1 dmg just like it but has 2 hp. And if any thorn survives it becomes a spawn point for your "runner"

GoHeat 3 · 03-28-2013, 07:38 AM

(03-28-2013 07:34 AM)blckace Wrote: I hope no one takes this the wrong way but they are not the weakest, I'm pretty sure the odds of a feedback or adorables player winning against me playing veggies are slim to none
And if we remove the wit return on kill it will be impossible
I don't understand when people say they can be countered so easily that argument makes no sense
It's not a game of thorn spam, what are you hoping to accomplish?
The bramble is ok now and if people don't like it they can choose another team

Exactly... Smile

Gavin Wins · 03-28-2013, 11:17 AM

(03-28-2013 07:34 AM)blckace Wrote: I'm pretty sure the odds of a feedback or adorables player winning against me playing veggies are slim to none

Wait, seriously? With the current state of the bramble? I'll accept your challenge and play you as both adorables and feedback against your bramble. I don't expect your thorns to be competitive in either matchup.