Bramble fix - game examples included

[Alvendor]

I've been trying out a fix for veggies in a couple of games. It is meant to:
* Require higher skill to use effectively.
* Not possible to only spam thorns anymore.
* Power will not grow exponentially.
* Make more than one bramble viable.
* Equally matched to other races.

Rule:
Bramble and thorns can only have one child at a time.

With the exception of above, bramble works exactly as usual. So far it feels balanced and the games gets more action than before. Note that these games were played quite quickly so there are a bit more errors than the usual ST replay. A shout-out to Blckace for being my sparring partner!

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y9uKJAww - no bramble here. Against early aggressive bombshell prob better to rush with soldiers than bramble...

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YtOiOAww

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y6qSJAww

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YzIyOAww

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20YxtiOAww - going double bramble here. Think it had worked out if I had been more careful with the sniper.


From here on forward I will play all my ranked and tournament games with these rules against any non veggies and post them here.

Would be great if other people can try it out also, from all different skill levels. If you post the replay I'll update this post with the game. Let's find out if this is the solution to veggies!

[GreatGonzales]

Interesting solution....I think I like it! Will have to watch those replays when I have more time.

[connor34911]

I don't really like the idea..I might try it out though. I think players at a lower skill level than you will just defer to adorables with this change.

[Gf!sh]

Looks nice. Feels a bit weird though. May I otherwise suggest placing a limit on thorns/Bramble (so that, say, one can spawn 6 thorns from one Bramble, and has to get a second one for more thorns)?

[BuzzleBee123]

(03-16-2013 08:11 AM)Gf!sh Wrote:  Looks nice. Feels a bit weird though. May I otherwise suggest placing a limit on thorns/Bramble (so that, say, one can spawn 6 thorns from one Bramble, and has to get a second one for more thorns)?

I'd be cool with that

[TheQwertiest]

(03-16-2013 08:11 AM)Gf!sh Wrote:  Looks nice. Feels a bit weird though. May I otherwise suggest placing a limit on thorns/Bramble (so that, say, one can spawn 6 thorns from one Bramble, and has to get a second one for more thorns)?

i dont like the idea of putting a limit on what a special can do. thats like saying if you have 2 scrambled units under a scrambler, youd have to make a new one to scramble another.

[Alvendor]

(03-16-2013 07:57 AM)connor34911 Wrote:  I don't really like the idea..I might try it out though. I think players at a lower skill level than you will just defer to adorables with this change.

Possible they might like other races better, but I'm not sure adorables are easier to play. For example on Reaper veggies can do a fairly easy bramble rush (3 round bramble, attack sniper/wit space/medic constantly with thorns) that is very hard to defend for adorables.

I haven't played enough yet, but my guess would be that with the change
Veggies > Adorables
Scallywags > Veggies
Adorables > Scallywags
Feedback slight underdog to everyone.

[Alvendor]

(03-16-2013 08:36 AM)OutwittersFan422 Wrote:  does this mean that only the "youngest generation" thorn/bramble can spawn a new thorn?

Yep, but you can recede thorns to make another thorn the youngest.

[OutwittersFan422]

you dont think that makes the bramble too vulnerable? especially on the larger maps?

for me the fix needs to maintain the veggies strength but limit the ability to completely overwhelm (especially early on)

For me the fix is ultimately to make thorns cost 2 wits or to make each thorn cost progressively 1 more wit for each turn

so turn 1: 1st thorn 1 wit 2nd thrown 2 wits 3rd 3 etc and then turn 2 resets to 1 again

This still allows all of the same in game strategic elements of play with the bramble but prevents players from covering the map as quickly and getting all the way to your vulnerable units on turn 3/4/5

doing this i think would probably need to remove the 1 returned wit for killing a thorn

[blckace]

It makes me want to cry how strong the bramble is, I can probably use it to break into top 5 this week if i wanted to but it's not something I'd enjoy doing. I can't believe some people don't want to nerf the bramble as it is, do you particularly enjoy easy wins? If you don't think it's OP invite me to a game with any race other than veggie.
I don't think I'll start any new league games until feedback get a buff. Save me OML!
I think this change Alvendor is suggesting will limit the power for the bramble without changing anything else. For two reasons:
1) It will make the bramble more predictable.
2) Using only one strain means the bramble no longer can cover the whole map.