Bump these teams to SuperTitan please!!!

Mr.Banger · (This post was last modified: 02-19-2013 09:13 AM by Mr.Banger.)

(02-19-2013 08:59 AM)CombatEX Wrote: [quote='Mr.Banger' pid='34926' dateline='1361227600']
Where are y'all coming from that the masters skill level is barely lower than the STs?

Quote:Did you read? In my example I stated that there could be a large gap between ST and Master. I said that even if the gap is large between ST and Master, there is also a large gap within Master. Since we have a gap anyway, is it not better to utilize all our leagues available instead of just having one league for 2 teams? Let's say this:

The 2 ST Team Hidden-Ratings

2000
1800

Master Team Hidden-Ratings From Highest to Lowest

1500 (highest)
1450
1425
1425
1325
1250
1100
[...]
850
825
825
825
800 (lowest)

So, this is all under the assumption that there is a big gap between Master team skill and ST team skill (I still think this is questionable, but just to satisfy you, let us assume this is the case).

Now, why are we devoting an entire league to 2 Teams when there is also a huge discrepancy in skill within Master? Why not instead have the following?

The 2 ST Team Hidden-Ratings

2000
1800
1500 (promoted)
1450 (promoted)
1425 (promoted)
1425 (promoted)

Master Team Hidden-Ratings From Highest to Lowest

1325 (highest)
1200
1125
[...]
850
825
825
825
800 (lowest)

Even then there is still a large skill range in Master but it's less drastic since we are now utilizing the ST league to a greater extent.

Of course if you're really so set on not promoting anyone else to ST then we can just demote the bottom half of Masters to Gifted instead.

I never said I was set on not promoting anyone else to ST. I'm just wondering why there's all these complaints when it's clearly possible to get to ST...

Quote:
(02-19-2013 09:00 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: [quote='Necrocat219' pid='34927' dateline='1361227608']
The difference between the top ST's and the bottom ST's is quite large in 1vs1 at least so I would see no problem Against the Likes of Terance, Poweewee, Alvy and Garcia I would probably win 1/4 games whilst against lower members of ST's it would probably be the other way around

Yes, this is an important point. People can say that there is a big divide between bottom ST and top masters, but if you look at the 1v1 ST league there is a considerable divide between poweewee and the lowest ranked ST. So, all this talk about a significant divide is not really relevant.

But for all we know, the ST teams could be like poweewee and Joel, while the master teams are say ranked around 110 in 1v1

alexjiang1 · 02-19-2013, 09:13 AM

(02-19-2013 08:50 AM)alexjiang1 Wrote:
(02-19-2013 08:36 AM)CombatEX Wrote:
(02-19-2013 08:32 AM)alexjiang1 Wrote: They couldve but the most likely explanation is that they are still higher if they havent lost many games since. And if those masters are higher, theyll get promoted soon enough

I don't see how that is more likely at all. You have no data to back it up.

At any rate, addressing your 12-1 comment:

You may be right. However, I don't think it should take a 12-1 rating to be in ST. Currently my team is at a 6-1 ratio. Perhaps that means we shouldn't be in the same league as you, but then I want all the Master teams with a 3-1 ratio or worse to be demoted to Gifted. You see what I'm saying? Why should there be a league just for 2 teams? Even if there is a pretty large gap, 12-1 to 6-1, there is also a huge gap in masters, 6-1 to something like 3-1 or worse. If we have to have a huge gap no matter what we should at least distribute it more evenly instead of having such a huge range in Master and barely utilizing one of our leagues, ST, by only have 2 teams. Well. If you insist on only keeping 2 teams in ST then I think we should shift our focus to getting a lot of the Master teams demoted to gifted. Okay? Okay. Why promote teams when we can demote them? Sounds good! =D

Why do I believe it's more likely? Because for them to get promoted means they went on a streak of some sort an surpassed the threshold differentiating themselves. There's absolutely no way any masters is higher unless they went on a big losing streak (nope, not from what Ive seen in our league) and will thus be demoted to Masters, if those Masters are higher than G/K w/o them going on a losing streak than those masters deserve to be promoted and will be promoted. It's logic and the most likely scenario or else they would've been demoted or another promoted. Of course, I don't know their record, I'm sure they can provide it though.
Addressing your 6-1, you're probably close, I'm in no ways saying that isn't good enough, all I said was its probably not higher than ours/theirs. Where do you get the fact that some masters are 3-1, facts, or logical assumptions like I made?

Szei, answer please Smile

GreatGonzales · (This post was last modified: 02-19-2013 09:36 AM by GreatGonzales.)

Quote:I'm just wondering why there's all these complaints when it's clearly possible to get to ST...

Come on man, I dunno what else to say. Haven't you been reading the thread? Of course it's possible, but the threshold is not ideal when considering the reality of the 2v2 population. Suppose the ST league can only ever contain a single team, the best team. Is it possible to get into this league? Yes, you could just get better than the number 1 team. Does this then mean that that promotion threshold is appropriate? No, clearly not. And this is not far from what we have currently.

Necrocat219 · (06-09-2014 02:14 PM)

(02-19-2013 09:09 AM)Mr.Banger Wrote: I never said I was set on not promoting anyone else to ST. I'm just wondering why there's all these complaints when it's clearly possible to get to ST...

Just because you have managed to get into ST level doesn't mean that it's possible for other teams (In fact improbable is probably correct here), in fact thats probably whats restricting the other teams from getting up there. Probably, of course I can't say thats true as we don't know how it works. I'm really surprised no one has mentioned the fact that you both can communicate with each other in person whenever you want and guide each others moves and tell each other what the other is doing whenever you want which would be a big contributing factor after all. Plus you are both in Master and Gifted in 1vs1 which is unusual compared to the top Master 2vs2 teams, who are largely Super Titans. A player shouldn't be penalized for not being able to communicate with each other as well as a player of equal skill. I believe that the other ST's were friends in real life also? Really if anything this should mean there should be more lax boundaries between Master/ST in 2vs2 otherwise if the game was more popular ST's would only be compromised of players that know each other in real life.

GreatGonzales · 02-19-2013, 09:40 AM

Eh. Rawkhawk is my brother IRL, and yes that is a bit of advantage in that we communicate more easily. But we have to talk in the chat like everyone else; we don't live together.

Necrocat219 · 02-19-2013, 09:43 AM

P.S. Not 'solid proof' as one would like as it's up for interpretation but I decided to have a peek at the 1vs1 League placements of the other 2vs2 Supertitans with the Hypothesis that one of them would be an alternate account: I found that Gurleyman was a 1vs1 Master level player and Krogoth300 had no other league placements than his 2vs2 ST placement. Check out below if you really want to.

http://osn.codepenguin.com/players/view/916

http://osn.codepenguin.com/players/view/917

Mr.Banger · 02-19-2013, 09:44 AM

(02-19-2013 09:22 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote:
Quote:I'm just wondering why there's all these complaints when it's clearly possible to get to ST...

Come on man, I dunno what else to say. Haven't you been reading the thread? Of course it's possible, but the threshold is not ideal when considering the reality of the 2v2 population. Suppose the ST league can only ever contain a single team, the best team. Is it possible to get into this league? Yes, you could just get better than the number 1 team. Does this then mean that that promotion threshold is appropriate? No, clearly not. And this is not far from what we have currently.

Yes but that's most definitely not the case here. Here, getting better than this number 1 team means getting past that never moving threshold. What do you mean it's not ideal? I'm sure others can get there as well, it just takes time and communication

Necrocat219 · 02-19-2013, 09:46 AM

(02-19-2013 09:40 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Eh. Rawkhawk is my brother IRL, and yes that is a bit of advantage in that we communicate more easily. But we have to talk in the chat like everyone else; we don't live together.

I wasn't implying anything. The thing I'm saying is that in a massive game this would be a problem that would be insolvable; the 'SuperTitan' League would consist of only players that speak verbally.

However that isn't the case in Outwitters; the playerbase is a lot smaller, therefore there is no need to isolate the players with a large advantage into a league of their own, it would just be a hinderence to the majority. As is being felt right now.

Mr.Banger · 02-19-2013, 09:47 AM

(02-19-2013 09:43 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: P.S. Not 'solid proof' as one would like as it's up for interpretation but I decided to have a peek at the 1vs1 League placements of the other 2vs2 Supertitans with the Hypothesis that one of them would be an alternate account: I found that Gurleyman was a 1vs1 Master level player and Krogoth300 had no other league placements than his 2vs2 ST placement. Check out below if you really want to.

http://osn.codepenguin.com/players/view/916

http://osn.codepenguin.com/players/view/917

Yep. It's up for grabs who they are and their relation. But I would think some of the top 2v2 masters know each other irl, such as worldfamous and dmfdie, or their individual skill is so surperior that they can come up with complex plans through chat ala Terence awpertunity or Terence poweewee.

Necrocat219 · (06-09-2014 02:14 PM)

You completely missed my point, the main point is that with a small player base the boundaries need to be more relaxed to accommodate as so few teams know each other in real life. This isn't about point scoring or kissing up to players or using individual examples, it seems I had to use one as GG and COmbatEX's slew of explanations don't seem to satisfy even though they are perfectly resonable.